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Farah Nanji  0:02  

Andreea, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing? Where are you joining us from?

 

Andreea Magdalina  0:08  

Hi, Farah. It's such a pleasure to be here with you. I'm calling in from LA from my house and Hollywood, after having been in Amsterdam for a week for ADE. It's great to be back. And it's great to be here with you.

 

Farah Nanji  0:24  

Nice, nice. Yeah, we were gonna sit down during ADE, but our schedules couldn't align. But I'm so happy we managed to catch up just shortly after. What were some of the key takeaways that you observed from ADE this year? And also, what were some of the critical messages that you wanted to share throughout the week?

 

Andreea Magdalina  0:47  

Yeah, ADE felt really good this year.  I have been personally going for the past 10 years or so, since before shesaid.so I was born, which is what takes up most of my time nowadays. And so in 2019, we launched our first official partnership with ADE that included a couple of talks and a mentoring program. And now this year, we really took that to the next level, ADE offered us a whole space to ourselves that we programmed. We had an entire day of talks and workshops and networking, ending with a bit of music. And yeah, it was such a powerful partnership, it really feels like we had the opportunity to touch on some of the most pressing issues in the industry right now, through our typical, shesaid.so intersectional lens. There were no talks about being a woman in music, which was very important to me because as a community, I feel like we've matured past that basic level of our mission. And instead, we focused on industry topics. We spoke to artists and labels and publishing about what it means to be an artist, manager, or agent and how to navigate all of that. Most importantly, we dedicated quite a bit of our programming to web three, because as a community, we really believe that web three is the potential to democratize the music business, which eventually has trickle-down effects on women and other underrepresented people in the space. So it felt really good to bring these more mature ideas to life while still staying true to our original mission.

 

Farah Nanji  2:59  

Amazing. Yeah, you guys had so much going on an ADE. And it's been also really amazing to see the growth over the last eight years, as well. So congratulations. And before we go a bit deeper into some of those things that you touched upon. Let's strip it down to the core and begin with what the mission is at shesaid.so for our listeners who may not be aware, and also, how has it evolved over time since you started eight years ago?

 

Andreea Magdalina  3:27  

It's such a great and timely question because we're just in the process of re-inventing ourselves, I guess, ADE was kind of the last major project this year, and we will be taking our time over the next month and a half that we have left in 2022 to reassess who we are and who we want to be moving forward. Rewriting our vision, mission values, all that kind of stuff. And in order to embrace this new, more mature, slightly evolved version of who we are. But to take a step back, shesaid.so is a global community of women, gender non-conforming people, and allies in the music industry. We have about 15,000 members distributed across 20 local chapters around the world, the majority of which are based in Europe. But also we have a presence in India through our Mumbai chapter, South Africa, and in a few other areas like that. Shesaid.so was born in London in 2014. At a time when the concept of community was still kind of mostly a tech concept. And also at the time when the conversation around diversity and inclusion didn't really exist, or it didn't really exist in the music business. At the time, I was working at the intersection of music and technology. And obviously, both industries still struggle with representation. But what was different was that the tech sector was kind of acknowledging this is a problem in the first place, and was trying to, at the very least talk about it, if not find solutions to address it, while the music business was completely uninterested in this topic, period. So that’s when shesaid.so was born, at the end of 2014. When I was in London, my main goal was, okay, let's firstly bring women together to make sure that it's not just something I'm imagining that this is a problem that most women out there experience, if they work in music, and get us together to support each other to help each other out. Because there was a sense of competitiveness, there was a sense of, there was only one seat at the table for a woman. And so as a result, we were all kind of competing against each other to get it. And obviously, since that point, things have changed drastically. People care about diversity and inclusion now and equity in general. There are more transparent and fair ways of working together. And so, we feel the conversation has achieved our first goal, which is creating awareness about our experience, and start discussing solutions. Now that we've kind of got to that point, and some solutions are being implemented. But we are still quite far from our ultimate goal, which is equity for all. Who are we at this point, I guess that's kind of what led us to this point of where we're at, where we want to figure out a new way to articulate who we are and what we stand for, and where exactly we are in the process of addressing equity in the world, and in the music business more specifically.

 

Farah Nanji  7:43  

It's super interesting because when people start a business and they get to a point where the mission has to evolve, there's a point where you have to take that pause and take a step back and reevaluate the core and the whole identity moving forward of how to achieve and evolve that mission. I know you made an announcement recently that in order to find the most thoughtful answers, you need to kind of take that step back to make room for that deep investigation. So what does that investigation process look like? How do you as a business or as an organization do that?

 

Andreea Magdalina  8:27  

First and foremost, it will definitely be a collaborative effort. You know, when I was thinking about these questions, prior to making any decisions or announcements, I kind of felt Oh, shoot. Now I have to figure it out because I was the one who gave birth to the community in the first place and who created the beast. I somehow felt that it was also upon me to establish where it goes next. But what I realized is that the reason we have been so successful as a community with purely organic growth, by the way, and fully bootstrapped, the reason it worked, in spite of there not being a very successful business model in place, if you are to think about our organization purely from a business perspective, we're not motivated by profits, we're motivated by our mission more. But what again, led to our success was how collaborative and community-based everything that we did was. And so, as we embark on this deep investigation journey, we will definitely work very closely with our team members from around the world to make them a part of this I'm exercise, and we will make the community a part of that exercise as well. I want every person who is a part of the community to feel like they have a say, and that they can shape the future of this community that they're a part of. And in fact, that's something that we have always done, you know, on an annual basis, we send out a member survey where people tell us what they like, what works for them, what doesn't, what are the, you know, topics and issues that matter most to them, and then kind of reflect those back the following year and developing a strategy that answers to those community needs. So it's going to be a similar process in this case, except we will, you know, really take our time to ask deeper-level questions. And, yeah, see where we land.

 

Farah Nanji  11:00  

I'm sure it's going to be a very interesting and reflective time for your team. So wishing you guys all the best for that journey ahead. Andreea, something we always like to ask our guests on this podcast is dissecting the meaning of their names. So before we do that, are you aware of what your name means?

 

Andreea Magdalina  11:34  

I think it means warrior, right? 

 

Farah Nanji  11:38  

It does. But it also has another thing attached to it. And I'm not sure if you know this, but in Greek, it means man. And it also means warrior. And it's really interesting because your whole mission is about gender equality and the fight for that. So we always find it fascinating because somehow, either subconsciously or not, somehow your name has a kind of deeper level impact. And yeah, I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that.

 

Andreea Magdalina  12:08  

That's really funny that you bring this up, I always kind of knew about the double significance. But I chose to focus on the warrior and kind of forget about the man part. But it's funny, because I always thought that I probably was a man in a different lifetime, I've been a tomboy, my entire life, I didn't have very girly interests, as I was growing up as a teenager. And I still am that person slightly androgynous. But more and more tapping into my femininity, as I get older, I guess. And it's also interesting because my creating shesaid.so in the first place is a total surprise. I never intended to be an activist or launch a project that tackles gender equality, but somehow fell into it through my own experience. And I always knew that I wanted to work on something that brings value to the world. And as I was getting started in the music business, it just, became very frugal to me, all of a sudden, it felt so surface level in a way, because there are elements of the music industry that are so surface level if you get lost in the industry, politics. But if you come back to the art, to the music, which is what brought us together in the first place, and when we chose to work in this chaotic business, then you know you start finding yourself, we're finding a much more interesting place for yourself in your career. And so that's exactly what happened,  it felt like the work that I was doing at the time as an artist relations slash community manager was lacking some depth, I guess. And I was able to find the depth with shesaid.so. And it allowed me to combine my biggest passions which were technology, which I guess in a way you can kind of say it's a very manly type of space and media as an art form, but bringing intersectional ethical values into my work.

 

Farah Nanji  15:08  

I can definitely relate, being a tomboy myself, life is about balance. So there's a yin and there's a Yang and both sides come out in different ways. And they can 100% coexist. And, given your background with Mixcloud, and your interest in electronic music, I think that's the reason why shesaid.so had more of a particular impact on that on that particular scene. So I wondered what your key observations are with gender disparity in electronic music and how it compares to other genres?

 

Andreea Magdalina  15:47  

Yeah, you're right, electronic music is definitely a space in which we have a bigger presence. And it is indeed a natural effect of my work with Mixcloud, where electronic was the more popular genre on the platform, as well as on a personal level, I love electronic music, I love that feeling that you get on the dance floor, where you can really lose yourself. Unless someone grabs you from behind or tries to spike you. And I guess it was that experience as a music fan, first and foremost, that led me to being aware of gender disparities in this space in the first place, first as a fan, and then as a music industry executive. And because electronic music is very much revolving around nightlife where substances are consumed, some of them illegal, some of them not, there is a particularly higher risk for women who operate in this space. On one hand, again, as a fan, you're someone who goes to a party or rave festival that is centered around electronic music, where this sort of substance consumption exists, your experience might be severely impacted by other fans, particularly male. And those dance floors tend to be particularly male, because of the nature of this space which can be slightly more aggressive, there are darker colors, even from a branding perspective, not just from a sound perspective, it feels like a much more aggressive kind of male centric part of the music ecosystem. And then you have the behind-the-scenes side of things where a majority of producers, the majority of studio engineers, mixing engineers, and so on are men. And so the music that they make, as a result, speaks to men more than women to some extent and reflects and refracts the vibe. I don't know how else to put it, that it feels aggressive toward women. And then an, even more, deeper step back into the business side of electronic music, where, let's face it, ultimately, it's about selling alcohol. That is the whole business model revolves around DJs playing at a club, where people consume alcohol. And ultimately, they're motivated by that, and men tend to spend more at the bar, and men tend to be the ones buying the drinks for the women. Again, I'm speaking in very traditional binary terms here. But, the commercial aspect of electronic music is something that is deeply problematic, not towards women only, but towards the people who created this space in the first place in Chicago who still aren't reaping the commercial aspects of the business. Still, it's definitely getting better. But a majority of the electronic music commercial value resides still with white males in Europe, basically. And it's funny that we ended up talking about this because it's a great parallel with that evolution of shesaid.so that I was talking about earlier, where you really have to look at the music industry in a holistic way. And then you start seeing that it's not just about women being discriminated against or harassed, or so on. But, you know, it's truly all aspects of the business that kind of lead to a lack of presentation, or to things like unfair record deals towards artists, it's because the music business, as an industry was built in the 50s, that's when the first record labels kind of came up and record deals were being offered to people, and it was purely predatory, artists were stripped away from their rights. And there tended to be a lot of female and POC type of artists who got the worst deals. And so then if you start looking at the music industry history, from that perspective, you start seeing the connection between equity or gender equity, more specifically speaking, and other problems that currently permeate the music business that doesn't necessarily have a direct connection to gender, or social impact, but is obviously linked. And so we want to address these issues from this more holistic place moving forward. And ad our programming at ADE really enabled us to tell that story, without even mentioning the word woman in any of the topics that we explored.

 

Farah Nanji  22:24  

There's so much I want to unpack from what you said because basically, I became a journalist because I felt like I had a duty from what I observed as a DJ. And this is going back to 2010 at the very beginning of my career when I felt unsafe even at first as a fan. The whole culture of nightlife is about hedonism. And the more intense the music is, the more hedonism it promotes. And then in turn the venues make more money. But also people come out for a release. And for people who are not in this industry day in and day out, of course, a lot of people live for the weekend. But at the same time, I also had friends that were shocked or a friend that was very shocked by who I remember, was a very famous DJ in Mykonos at the time, everybody knew him, he was this Greek guy. And, one day, when he found out I was learning to DJ, he was like, but you know, women can't DJ and I was like, Are you serious, you know me, and you actually commend me on my music selection, but you think I actually don't have the physical ability to become a DJ. I mean, that is just ridiculous. And it's interesting when people that you know, can have the audacity to say that to you. And at the same time, also other experiences, like on the dance floor not being safe because, as you mentioned, there are people who find it completely acceptable, to touch your body that doesn't belong to them, and they don't know you, but that's their first interaction point with you and it's just, it's shocking. And then from behind the DJ booth perspective, again, people may assume that you take drugs and therefore you may want that and think that it's okay to put it in your drink without you knowing and it's shocking what's acceptable to a lot of people and who don't question our fundamental human rights and values. But then on the other hand, from what you said about the music and how maybe when it's more male-dominated the type of music gets played. And when you see a female DJ, sometimes, I think you can tap quite deep into an emotive state. In all of this, it's a big contrast to what electronic music actually promotes and stands for, which is the value of promoting freedom. And when you look at other genres, like hip hop, for example, you know, that it's completely different. And I'm not talking old-school hip hop, because I think that's a different time. But, modern-day, hip-hop is very different in the way they promote women. It can be a bit distasteful. And the dance floor is, is very different. There's so much sexual energy on the dance floor, whereas on the electronic music, dance floor, I think it is not necessarily primarily about that. So what do you think about other genres? And how can you make an impact on actually changing the biggest mindset shift which is safety on the dance floor?

 

Andreea Magdalina  26:16  

Yeah, that's the million-dollar question that we're all trying to figure out and what we have learned is that there is no one answer. Because that would be easy if we just figured out what it is, and then we would implement it, and boom, but unfortunately, discrimination and inappropriate behavior on the dance floor and the studio, are much more systemic issues that start from 1000s of years ago with, continued years of patriarchal organization of our society. And all this collective memory over the last few 100 years, is deeply rooted in how we organize ourselves as people and will take a long time to unlearn. It starts in our homes as children, in some cultures, it's still regarded as a misfortune to give birth to a daughter instead of a son. It's that deeply rooted right, or more close to the Western sort of thinking, when you have a baby boy, you will buy him blue clothes, and trucks and cars, and construction and science and dinosaurs. And if it's a girl, you give her baby Barbie dolls, and you want her to be pretty and play with princesses and all that stuff. So these notions of what makes a woman a woman and what her role is in the world, are very deeply ingrained from a very young age. So there is a lot of undoing to be done and an unlearning to be done in order for us to truly get to the point where these things aren't an issue on the dance floor or in the home or in the classroom, or whatever. But bringing it back to the music industry, music has so much power to influence. And we can try to make those changes on the dance floor. Even if it starts with something as simple as you know, putting a Code of Conduct kind of messaging, in the bathrooms at the club, or including that sort of message of what we stand for beyond the hedonistic consumption of music or escape. We also want to do that in a way where everyone feels safe. But if you don't put these kinds of ideas in front of people who, let's face it, most type of discrimination out there happens on an unconscious level. If you make people conscious of these issues, you make it more likely that they will happen less and less. And one thing that was very important for us in particular was to make men a part of our mission. Because as women sometimes it feels like you're preaching to the choir, essentially. Yes, of course, we know that we're experiencing these issues. As most of you know, the perpetrators tend to be straight white males or straight males, period. So we need to get them on board with our agenda, we need to make them aware of what we're experiencing, and then turn them into allies. Because a man is a lot more likely to listen to another man, if they're talking about things of this nature, if I as a woman go and complain about being grabbed at the club, firstly, will I even be believed in the first place, and that's already we're entering more extreme territories of harassment. And they happen a lot still in the industry. A way to address that is by getting the men on board to stand up for us. And to be our advocates.

 

Farah Nanji  30:55  

100%, it's not men versus women, we all know, and it should never be that way. And therefore, it's really important that men are in this conversation with shesaid.so as well, because at the end of the day, it's as you said, it's sometimes it's unconscious, but the reason it's unconscious is that it's been normalized, and therefore, in the spaces that those conversations are taking place, in the locker room, wherever, that people should have the ability to speak up against something that's not fundamentally right. You know, it goes against the protection and safety of either gender, actually, at the end of the day. And I'm sure you've probably thought about this, but I'm sure that in your long-term, trajectory, there could be so much impact, you could have like other conferences, where it's not just dance music, but it's other music genres as well, where there is also a shocking kind of similarity. I know that it's hard to quantify a lot of the impact. And it's hard to quantify, in truth the number of DJs or producers but there was an interesting statistic from the USC School of Communication in California that said, 2% of music producers are female, in this industry. It's interesting, because obviously this industry is inherently forward-thinking by nature, and its innovative look, all the music tech, the music that comes that gets made. But yet that is so unacceptable. And so behind. It's similar to motorsport as well because again, motorsport is so much about innovation, but at the same time, that figure is less than 2%. So it's polarised opposites there, but as someone who's working so like tirelessly to change this, why do you think you know this is the fact? And how can we as an industry take changes to change the fact? Is it having more opportunities? Is it artists really going out of their way to provide and pave the way for the next future talent in the industry? A combination of all those things?

 

Andreea Magdalina  33:02  

Yeah, it's definitely a combination of different efforts that come internally and externally from the music industry. With that statistic, I think it's worth mentioning the fact that the Annenberg Institute looked at I believe, that top 100 Billboard chart. And so kind of draw the conclusion that 2% of the producers who make the most popular music that people listen to today, only 2% Are women, or identify as women. And so what happens here is a massive gap between what ends up being popular, where most of the money is in the music business side, you might have heard that it's extremely difficult to develop a sustainable career in music, whether you're an artist or an executive, there are years and years of free labor and even spending your own money and compromising by taking on other jobs, until you get to a point where the music actually pays for your life. And so, there's a huge gap between people who are trying to experiment and there are the independent and underground aspects of music that are a lot more diverse and inclusive, truly artistic, creative, and innovative, if you may, but there is no money. There is no funding in that space. And so at some point, people either give up, at some point, people have families, and so they don't even get the opportunity to get to that level where I guess they are officially part of the popular music ecosystem. And there are similar studies that show at a junior level when people just entered the workforce things are quite balanced,  it's more or less a 50/50 representation. Unless you're probably looking at a very specific niche industry. But things get worse as you progress as you get to the mid and senior level and C suite levels of any business things become less and less representative of women, people of color, LGBTQ plus, and so on. And there's a combination of things there, on one hand, ageism. On the other, the potential for motherhood, even if you don't end up having children, these are the questions that every employer asks themselves. Okay, how old is she? When is she planning to have kids because I'm going to have to pay for two years of her maternity leave. So instead of promoting a woman, they promote their male counterparts, or if you're a creative artist, ageism is such a thing, all the sort of gatekeepers in the music business focus on young talent because they know it takes about nine years to break a career to get to a point where all that investment starts recouping to tenfold, basically. So, preference tends to go for younger women who look pretty and have the ability to invest in their beauty, and it's a very archaic and fucked up way of looking at things. But that's just very much still how the music business works. And until we change those mindsets, you know, we won't be able to see substantial change. And the good news is that we are starting to see these thought patterns change, and it's reflected by consumer behavior, by Gen Z behavior, who is now I believe, the majority of the consumer age bracket, I suppose, and they are coming into the space in a much more intersectional, and equity and impact-driven mindset than maybe my generation of millennials, and definitely the generation before us. 

 

Farah Nanji  37:44  

You touched upon something there, that's really important to highlight, which is the financial aspect. And whether you're at the beginning stage of your career, or you're well into your seventh-year hustle, and it's still not your full-time because the money hasn't sustained you, I think there are two sides that people who are listening to the conversation should take away and one is, as a fan, please understand the impact of not paying for music, because that is what creates financial instability and all this huge pressure on performances, which also has a huge impact on sustainability and mental health as well, because, you know, touring around the world, however, many days a year is extremely grueling, and it's not for everyone as well. And it shouldn't have to be for everyone. It shouldn't be the only way to succeed. Although, of course, the metaverse is opening up a lot of interesting questions around that, but we're not there yet. We're still early adoption phase. So when people kind of take for granted what streaming has done or what piracy has done. I think it's very important to go out of your way to support artists in every shape, or form. And secondly, as a promoter or somebody who's responsible for employing an artist, don't try and get their services for free. I mean, at the end of the day, I think if you're an up-and-coming producer or an artist, you should say okay, year one, I'm gonna take the free gigs, because I need to make that CV portfolio, whatever. But after that, you should never just do it because you feel like you should, and then you're making it acceptable for other people to see you're bringing the price down. Then there's also the amount of, you know, we see it in sports, the amount men might earn versus women. And so there are so many things that I think people maybe not so aware of when it comes to the industry and you just see this lifestyle, it looks so great, but actually, there's a lot behind and talking about the metaverse, I'm interested to know if you've thought about it. For example, the way that music is now being consumed by the newer generations is partly also a result of the pandemic. It's very different, and it has placed the emphasis on the artist having standing for something or being very vocal about whatever it is that they're passionate about. And it's not necessarily the music first. It's like if I follow someone on Tik Tok because they do X Y Z or, you know, so there's this kind of like, let's say pressure for artists to not just be about the music, right? And we kind of know that anyway in the social media age. But as we kind of shift towards this, also the consumption experience of music in the metaverse Have you thought about the kind of online hate and abuse that we've seen, which is quite toxic in web2, and how that might change or can be changed in web3 to protect artists and executives?

 

Andreea Magdalina  41:00  

Well, unfortunately, I think we are at a point in the development of the metaverse, whatever that may mean to people. And were the same issues that we've been experiencing in the web two world kind of translated if not even exponentially felt in the metaverse or in the web three-space? And that is, again, a reflection of the fact that the web three space continues to be traditionally male-dominated straight now, straight. You know, white and Asian males are basically dominating this space. And even though it goes down to even the code that they write, you know, and speaking of artificial intelligence, how all these AIs that are being built are ultimately they're being coded by the majority of men with those kinds of tendencies, that they then continue to propagate in web three-space. So I think it goes back to the same issues that we're tackling in the music industry as well. representation, it starts with representation behind the scenes as well, ensuring that the gates gatekeepers and builders in the web three or in the metaverse space are diverse people coming from all walks of life. Maybe there's a need for some sort of Metaverse, committee, an ethical committee to exist and help shape this up because we're already seeing how the need for security and privacy in the web two world continues to govern our lives and influence some of the most core aspects of our society, like presidential elections, and not having a set of standards in place, creates room for a massive gap in power and who gets to hold that power. And we already know who tends to hold these kinds of powers because it's a mimic of generational wealth, which presently tends to be in the hands of particular groups of people. And so by democratizing, we're introducing some standards and criteria in place by people like us, I guess, that justifies the existence of communities like shesaid.so. If it wasn't for us, kind of ruffling the feathers and asking the question that nobody wants to answer because they're not necessarily in line with profit margins, but they are in line with human growth potential. Then I'm afraid we will land with a Metaverse that is just as bad if not worse. In fact, people feel like they can act even brasher when they're behind a screen. Their behavior can be even more extreme and polarising. And so I think it's important for communities like ours, to bring our ideas and our values and our mission into these new technology spaces.

 

Farah Nanji  44:47  

Yeah, definitely. Of course, the exciting part of web3 is the fact that we have a chance to get it right from creating the guardrails from the beginning. But as you touched upon, what if we don't because of the fact that who's designing them and who has that cut? If you look at the Instagrams, the Facebook's, the Twitter's, in the end, these platforms are just not doing enough to prevent human trafficking, to prevent online bullying, etc. So, yeah, it's a lot to unpack, what would be your advice? It's a crazy chaotic world we live in, so if you're an emerging female artist, what do you think are the three things that you would tell that person to navigate this industry currently, with so much going on of uncertainty of everything we've talked about?

 

Andreea Magdalina  45:41  

Yeah, it's hard to capture the complexity of the music industry into three tips. But I guess the first thing would be to be patient and kind to yourself, it's going to be hard. Just acknowledge that and know that there will be lots of obstacles on the way, and just when they happen to arise, stay calm, patient, and kind to yourself, and try not to blame yourself. If anything goes wrong, the second one is to build a strong community around you this cannot be expressed enough. And not just because of our community and the impact that we've had. But the music business is a highly social industry, where you need those initial superfans, if you want them, they can be friends and family to truly support your career, whether it's financially or emotionally or whatever that may be. So yeah, having a strong network around yourself, is key. And then thirdly, is in this sounds kind of cliche,  it goes back to authenticity and not being afraid of taking risks and embracing new technologies and just putting stuff out. And that's more of a startup kind of mentality that I've embraced by working in technologies just put stuff out, don't expect it. Don't wait until it's absolutely perfect. And as artists and creative people, I know that many encounter this problem where how do you know that your art creation is ready? It will never, you can constantly work on it, and refine it. But on a more practical level, just put stuff out, share things on social media, test this thing, see what works, and continue to do more of that until you truly feel like you found your voice and your identity. And if your voice and identity change over time, that's okay share the story of how that happened with your community, and they will stay along for the ride,

 

Farah Nanji  48:10  

Some really great tips and I can definitely resonate with many of them. I would just add, it is really hard sometimes to let go of music because there's so much you can do, right? Because you have infinite possibilities. But it's a mental challenge as well to finish what you start and like to be proud and to let go. Because you don't want to be sitting there five years later and like, and there's no, there's no, nothing, nothing's going I think there's an importance of like taking time to develop, of course, like that's really important that you shouldn't rush just because the industry is putting that pressure to like have those tracks because of many reasons. But you also need to be able to know when to move forward. And as you say, we all evolve. We can all look back at artists and think about how different their sound was when they first came out and how it continuously evolved, even if you look at Deadmau5, the Deadmau5 of today is not who he was in 2005 and so many artists. Andreea, I know, we're almost out of time. So final question, I would like to ask you is, what are some of the misconceptions behind the work that you do? 

 

Andreea Magdalina  49:26  

I think the biggest misconception that I struggle with is, and you've mentioned it earlier in our conversation, is this idea that we've created a you vs them ecosystem. And it's really not about men versus women here. I think, in particular, we've done a pretty good job of making men feel welcome in the way we talk about things and if you look at our current manifest it's not very rigid, because it acknowledges, that you need to put the equity question into context. You can't just force a 50/50 parity across things because life isn't as black or white. And we didn't want to put that pressure on companies, or people. That's the main thing I want to clarify. And then the second one, for me would be and I think I mentioned it earlier, too, is this idea of the girl boss movement. Our name feels very feminist too, but I refuse to identify with that type of feminism, which in some way, does us a disservice. It is empowering. And it is great, but it's so on the girly side, that you know, the tomboy in me, the warrior in me cannot identify with it and cannot take it seriously. And so shesaid.so specifically is not about that kind of feminism, it's about something a bit more intersectional that looks at equity and impact in the business in the music industry from a much more holistic perspective beyond gender

 

Farah Nanji  51:41  

Really well said. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you'd like to share in your final closing thoughts? Or do you think we've covered quite a lot to take away for today?

 

Andreea Magdalina  51:53  

We've covered a lot and there's yet so much more to say at the same time. I don't know who your typical audience is, but just the final thoughts to leave for whoever's listening is just being kind and patient, and mindful as you navigate the industry that you're in and the life path that you're on. Be kind to yourself and to others and everything's gonna be okay.

 

Farah Nanji  52:36  

Andreea its been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

 

Andreea Magdalina  52:40  

Likewise, thank you so much.

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