Sallyann Della Casa: 0:00 

 

View the most, you know, your family members, your friends, and they already have you pegged in a certain corner on a shelf looking a certain way, and you kind of say, wait a minute, no, that's not my spot, I actually want to be in another position that impacts everybody around you. So the people around you, they were not encouraging at all about me giving up law, about me trying to you know, as far as they were concerned, they're like, you're going from a lawyer to be a teacher, you know, that was just such a disgrace. You know, it was a very difficult thing, but I knew, I just knew deep inside, you know, what I was doing was not aligned to why I'm here. And I think I, I feel so fortunate that I asked, and I was able to answer that question, why are you here? Right, because I, you know, if I look at it in the bigness of it, we're just passing through. And we're here. And I think when we are in flow with why we're here, it feels different. And I know that now, it feels very, very different.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:00  

 

You're listening to the Mission Makers show, a podcast that inspires humans to get into the mindset of success. My name is Farah Nanji. And I'm the founder of a business in the Motorsports industry that explores leadership lessons from things like Formula One. I'm also a DJ and music producer in the underground electronic scene, and a public speaker on key topics like resilience, building high performance teams, overcoming learning difficulties and stimulating creativity. And to tie it all together, I love writing thought provoking content as a journalist for these industries, which is so unique in themselves. On this show, I'm sitting down with some of the most inspiring and driven people I've met around the world to talk about their processes, their failures, the lessons they've learned, and how they are truly making an impact in this world.

 

So guys, today I'm really excited to bring on an incredible fellow TEDx speaker on the show. Her name is Sallyann della casa and her mission is centred around fostering leaders through the soft skills that make us human. In an increasingly automated world, where the pace of work is changing so rapidly, our skills and things like communication, collaboration, creativity, and more need to be exceptional. And as you listen to today's show, you'll understand why 80% of C suite leaders value those skills more than the hard skills that we develop. Sallyann has had a really interesting journey, and we discuss many things on today's show from breaking out of the expectations set by our family, to her experiences as a female founder in tech, and her advice for managing personal and professional boundaries. Just before we begin, if you're interested in watching the video version of this podcast, head over to YouTube and type in sallyann della casa mission makers to see the show. And if you're interested in some really cool rewards like DJ lessons, and live coaching with me and my teams, head over to w.patreon.com forward slash mission makers to check out how you can access these exclusive rewards, ready to rock and roll. So Sally, I'm thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to have you on mission makers, your energy is absolutely infectious. And I cannot wait for our audience to absorb some of your amazing energy and your annual learnings and just what you've been through in your life.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 3:19

  

So I am so excited to be here. Farah, thank you for having me. And likewise, I felt that the minute I met you your energy also. So that's very cool. We're very vibes, and energy Faraj.

 

Farah Nanji: 3:30

  

That's very true. And we've only met virtually so it's quite interesting, isn't it to read energy on a virtual platform. But anyway, can't wait till the day that we can actually meet in person, aside from all this, but I want to sort of start off by taking you back to your earlier sort of childhood days and talking about Trinidad and Tobago, which is I know where you kind of grew up and holds a special place in your heart. Looking back now, What do you remember about that experience? And growing up there?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 4:02

  

Oh, wow. So I'm an island girl, through and through. And I think that I did not realise that, you know, I left at a really young child, you know, spent a lot of time out in Europe. And you know, you kind of think that you move on from places I think most of us that come from developing countries and we kind of go out into the developed world. And it was really interesting that I had gotten back several years ago and it was almost like my body was healed. And physically it felt like nowhere else. And that's when I realised the impact that my childhood and being an island girl, it took me all of that time. I think we've run away from it so much those of us whether it's the islands, a third tier city, in India, or whatever it might be. So I'm a proud Island girl. Absolutely. And it is One says everything about me, everything about me the way I look at people the way I look at opportunity. You know, in the islands in Trinidad and Tobago, in the same family, we have Hindus, Muslims, Catholic, we go to church, we go to mosque, we go to, you know, all of those things, impacts my worldview.

 

Farah Nanji: 5:20

  

That's really interesting. I was very surprised by this. And maybe maybe a lot of people know this, but I definitely didn't. I didn't know that East Indians make up the largest ethnic group in Trinidad, followed closely by African. So what role has India played in your life kind of while experiencing this indo Trinidadian relationship?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 5:39 

 

Absolutely. So yeah, historically, Trinidad and Tobago under British rule for you know, the sugarcane etc, was indentured workers. And not only even though there's a large Indian population, and there's a large African population, there's also Chinese Arab. It was occupied, it was occupied by the French and Spanish. So when you see that, and if you look at the actual mixed population, that's about 60%. So it's pretty normal in Trinidad and Tobago. So people, when they see me, they kind of look and they go, someone came from India, and then they go, but there's like something else there. So in terms of India, somebody clearly in terms of my family line, I don't know which part of India because we don't know. And I don't know if it's my great, great grandparents, because it's not my grandparents. That came from India. And how that impacts me is certainly, you know, when I got to Bangalore, the first time several years ago, you know, that exhale, I told you that I felt in the Caribbean, I felt it when I went to India, and I was not expecting it at all. And I literally landed in Bangalore, and somehow, you know, everything just kind of felt so familiar. And, you know, in India, I'm embraced so much, but this is what they say. They're like, she's really one of us, but she got lost on the other side of the world. That's how they describe me, you know, because certainly, when I opened my mouth, and you know, my worldview is so different in terms of the culture, but I do celebrate, you know, Diwali, I did with my dad. Growing up, just like I would celebrate, you know, as I said, eat and go to church with my mom. So that Indian background plays a big role. But not only for someone like me that has, you know, a direct descendant, you can have a complete African family and they celebrate Diwali in Trinidad and Tobago. So it's a really very cool fara. And I'm sure the cross cultural cuisine there is quite interesting as well, there must be some great things that you guys are cooking in the kitchen. Absolutely. So when you go to India, and you taste Indian food, and then you see the Indian food in the Caribbean tastes completely different. It does. Because you're correct. We have Spanish influence, French influence and Creole influence. The spices are different. So serving Indian food in the Caribbean, we go is it India Indian food? Or is it our Indian food? Which is really lovely.

 

Farah Nanji: 8:14

  

You mentioned something earlier about being an island girl that the way you look at people is different. I'm curious about that. What does that mean? 

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 8:23

  

So um, you know, first of all, I'm very connected to nature. And I'm very connected to our connection to the environment and nature, I'm very connected to we are not things because in the islands we have, for example, Carnival in Trinidad and Tobago, like Carnival in Brazil, and it doesn't matter you can be from the highest class, the lowest class, I mean, Carnival in our island started off because of the slaves and they were dancing on the street. And that was the one time they were allowed to affiliate and associate with their landowners. So when I say an island girl view, I see the Oneness in all of us the connectivity in terms of nature, the simplicity of the taxi driver and you know, the wealthiest person sitting in a car sitting on you know, the side of the road, which we do in Tobago on the seawall and watching the sunset together. There is something super special that I did not realise, as I said to you until later on in life, that is this island thing. And there's just great simplicity in it. And it's the great connectivity of humaneness. So anyone who goes to the Caribbean, you know, when do we go to the Caribbean and the islands on vacation, and when you ask anybody about the experience of being there, they will say oh my gosh, like there is not all of these. You just let go. There is something about just exhaling and letting go. And I think you know, that's the beauty of that. That's the real beauty of humanity. And I think most of us forget that. So that's what I mean by an island. Girl, fara,

 

Farah Nanji: 10:06

  

very interesting. Thanks for sharing that with me. How does that then compare to like living in Dubai, where you still have the ocean? Maybe not as much nature as a place like the Caribbean? But like, do you feel? Do you feel like how you feel in that environment?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 10:22

  

It's hard. You know, I'm going to be very frank with you. So I know, Dubai is a fantastic place. It's, you know, I'm here because of work. There is an incredible about 90% of the Dubai population is global. So it's a great global community. You know, you're just in your hallway, if you have nine apartments, all nine of you can be from completely different parts of the world. So that's the great thing. But in terms of, you're correct, there's the ocean. But, you know, I'll give you an example. You know, so I'm going to go paddleboarding with my girlfriends . On Tuesday at 730 in the morning, you know, one is from Belgium, and the other one is from the Caribbean, like me and Canada. And we get that connectedness from you know, within ourselves now, do people normally do that in Dubai, we are the only ones out there paddle boarding at 730 in the morning, before we all head into the office, and you know, we're all big corporate, you know, you know, in our other lives, but we kind of do that in the morning just to have that connection and we kind of go around the bridge Ella Rob, and by you know, 1030 we're all in the office you know, being suits. So even though the pleats are there, because of the nature you know, Dubai is not naturally green, so everything is very very manicured, and perfect. Sometimes you just want to mess up the grass a little bit going, you know, I need some Bush to go walking into butter. Um, but but you know, it's, it's different. It's different for right, it's, it's completely different.

 

Farah Nanji: 11:55

  

It definitely is. So you did spend some of your childhood as well learning at a boarding school in Switzerland, how did that experience play a part in shaping who you are today?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 12:08 

 

It was a fantastic experience. You know, I really feel so blessed that my parents were able to send me abroad, most of my schooling was done abroad outside of the Caribbean. So I have to tell you, the first time I went into Switzerland into boarding school, my roommates were lovely to our girls. And it was my first exposure. Faraj you know, both of them, you know, we're very young. At the time, you know, we're not even full fledged, you know, teenagers yet. And it was the first time I came across people with like, incredible wealth. So they were really young, but already with like fur coats, and four or five Rolex watches, and you know, everyone's parents were Silva sending private planes on the weekend to take us all over the place. And I was sitting there going, Oh, my God, I'm like, the poorest Island girl in this whole school. And it really opened up my eyes, in terms of that experience, to just different people and different ways of, you know, thought and different ways people live and being able to know that I can fit in and thrive anywhere. As I said to you, because, you know, coming straight from the islands, you know, I still had my very thick Island accent. And, you know, we were speaking in the school, you know, in French, Italian and German. So learning languages, and what was great about our school is that every six weeks, we would travel to different countries all over the world, and spend six weeks with families in those countries. So I had the opportunity to, you know, live in Germany, you know, live in Russia, live in, you know, the most fantastic places I get. So it shapes your worldview, right, I can truly say to you, that you can drop me in the middle of anywhere, you can drop me in the middle of the desert, you know, with a tribe, you can drop me in the finest place in the world with the most sophisticated people and I just completely can fit in, in any type of environment. And I think my college, you know, my experience being abroad, being educated in Switzerland, and Toronto has really kind of shaped my ability to be able to go in and out of so many different worlds. You know, sometimes people are shocked by it. So in the Caribbean, I would have a meeting in the morning with, like the prime minister of the country in the afternoon, be teaching in the jail. And each one of those parties saw me as one of them. And I think that's a beautiful gift to be able to kind of really very equally those words.

 

Farah Nanji: 14:44

  

It's almost like being a chameleon. And I definitely resonate with that my university was 95% Global and that that foundation was amazing just to hear the inner cultures and the you know, just the things that make people who they are and, and have that global business. Bective Now I know that a topic that you're very, very passionate about is, education. And there are a lot of misconceptions, obviously, about private versus public education. At this moment in time, we're speaking and we're undergoing probably the biggest paradigm shift in education that our lifetime has ever seen. What is the reality in your eyes?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 15:21

  

So I, you know, with all the negativity, with COVID, I would actually say it has been, you know, on the other extreme, so that, you know, there's always a double ended sort of everything, it has been the most powerful catalyst for change in education. So the things that those of us in education have been talking about, for generations. So you know, whether it is 3040 years now is coming to pass in a matter of months in terms of the open mindedness of educators, the open mindedness of government, the open mindedness of funders, you know, even parents, right? To be able to go, let's try this, let's try something different. And the, you know, the reason why it has not worked, whether it's public or private, I think public and private has mitton been fundamentally the same, because the biggest stakeholders, which are parents, teachers, as long as you know, they've never there's been real, no incentive to shift or change anything. And educators are not going to change the system, if they continue making money off of it the way it is, I mean, that's a reality. So I think what has happened now, in both public and private is COVID, kind of threw everybody into the same boat, whether you're public and private, you're now in a home environment, you're now not in that not in a piece of real estate that somehow makes it look different, or sound different. It's right there in front of you, what's happening with parents, and teachers with your child. And everyone is all the stakeholders are involved on a daily basis, which they're not used to, because parents would just drop their kids off. So they have no, you know, even though they're a stakeholder, they weren't really actively involved. Now, everyone is actively involved, and everyone can see what the problem is. And it's opened up the door to say, Okay, well, what if, right, and that what if, is what kind of now allows so many players, whether it's startups, whether it is, you know, those with innovative ideas to go, let's see what that what it can look like, in terms of education. And there's always been this disconnect, with education, and, you know, the workforce, and it's been getting wider and wider. And the reason it's getting wider and wider, far is because, you know, traditionally our parents' generation, they would graduate and the value of their degree was a 30 year career or a 50 year career. Today, the value of a degree, you're lucky if it's even worth anything by the time you graduate. That's how you know fast. areas are shifting. You know, I think the World Economic Forum recently said that by 2020 to 133 million new emerging jobs will happen. And you know, when I say that people go, Well, what do you mean, and I always say to them, think about the job contact racer. So a year ago, none of us actually even knew what a lab even was. In April of 2020, there were 100,000 job vacancies for that job alone in the US, and it pays 34 bucks an hour. That job didn't exist, there's no degree for it. It's all based on, you know, human skills. So I think it's real now for governments, parents, everyone going Wait a minute. I mean, the purpose of education is to determine if the measure of success of education is to put a child out there into the world who can get a great job, thrive, be a successful human being and have all the opportunity in the world? Well, you know, if that's the measure, we have pretty much done terrible at it for the last several years, and now is that opportunity in terms of changing and both public and private. So timing is now Farah.

 

Farah Nanji: 19:09

  

It 100% is, and so talking about graduating and degrees, you know, this is absolutely not normal, because you went to high school and you graduated by the age of 15. But you failed your Oh, you didn't pass your common entrance exams in the beginning. Yes. So to do that, and then it didn't stop there, because he attained five degrees before the age of 21. I mean, this is a, you know, a phenomenal achievement. How do you look back at that moment? Do you see it? As you know, the educational system is kind of flawed because it puts all this expectation on me or do you see as you know, you were just placed under this huge wave of expectation from your family or your surroundings? How do you kind of look back at that?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 19:48

  

So you know, I failed the common entrance at nine. And the common entrance is like, you know, if you're under the British system, it's this big exam, I think, you know, it's called the SCA. Now you take even to get in Do you know, I think it would be considered Middle School at that point. And the reason I failed it is I am not a linear thinker. I'm a divergent thinker. And most test taking is memory work of linear thinkers. Right? Here are the three answers for the one thing, and I am that child who you give me an essay, I can write all kinds of stuff when I was a kid, come up with all kinds of creative stuff. But I was not my memory is not that great. So I wasn't really good at it. And it was really where far I started, it sunk into me. Because people are judged by that, that I wasn't smart. And I think I spent the next 10 years after that far or, you know, by the time till I was 21, trying to prove to myself and prove to my family, that I was smart. I think that's why I collected all of these degrees, because I just never thought I was smart enough. I mean, and it was something just, I would say to you, I've only gotten over in the last 10 years as a grown woman of going, it's perfectly okay not to know stuff and raise your hand and people have the confidence that you know, what you don't know, and you can go learn it or find the people to supplement that. And that's perfectly okay. As a leader, you don't have to know everything. So I think that I only got that confidence in the last 10 years as an adult. But up until 21. I was just trying to prove I was smart enough. I mean, how horrible is that, that I spent all that time collecting all those degrees just trying to be accepted?

 

Farah Nanji: 21:39

  

No, it's very true. And that's where I think the education system is flawed. Because it's so much about you know, at the age of three, you need to get into the school and take a test to get in there. And if you don't, your whole life is determined as to where you'll end up where you could go, what your potential is, according to who, you know, society. And it's not correct. Because exactly, you have to go through this huge internal reflection and journey to gain back that confidence, to allow yourself to thrive and feel, feel okay to know that you will never know everything, there's just it's not humanly possible. And that's absolutely okay. So talking about this kind of weight of expectation. I know that you spent many, many years almost a decade working in law, and you felt like you were climbing a mountain that you didn't really want to be on, but you kind of did it to appease your family. So what were the kind of turning points for you to transcend that need to fulfil your family's expectations of you? And do you reflect back on that time now as the catalyst that actually led you to answer your true calling in life?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 22:43

  

Sure, so during that time, you know, and as I said to you, you know, I was extremely young. So you know, I became an attorney at 21. And I would say this, for any female, you have no idea who you are 21 even though you think you have it all together, I can look back now, but at the time, I thought I had it all together. And I was always even though I was going through the motions of you became a lawyer, you practice law, you know, applied for different types of board positions, you know, did very well, I'm a hard worker, what I was doing was a side hustle volunteering, mentoring, and teaching and training and writing curriculum. And I think, for most of us, if we look back, and you can only do this looking back, there is always evidence of who you truly are. And I if I look back, even when I was 13, you know, I was already at the Make A Wish Foundation, you know, volunteering and mentoring all through college, my college roommates would say she was volunteering and all kinds of stuff, training and teaching and they're like, what the heck do you know, to train and teach it was just that I, one of my unique gifts is my ability to connect with anybody, right remember of any kind of realm and I was just searching and looking for that in terms of that connection with people and whispering to them their potential. So law, you know, I look at it. I often wonder, did I waste that 10 years of my life practising law and I would say No, only because now it really sharpened my mind and I see things that others generally do not see. Because of that experience. And because of the type of law I was in I was into you know, most of my clients were very sophisticated business people. So I'm able to see a lot of things that most people don't see in terms of doing transactions and running a business etc. But what did that feel like? It felt far like You know how sometimes you see in a shop window like this absolutely fabulous outfit. And when you go and try it on, it's not made for your body. But it looked really great on the window. That's exactly how long I felt. It was like trying on an outfit not me for my body type. And it was just uncomfortable. And you just did No, because you didn't, I didn't have the vocabulary yet, or the confidence or courage in myself yet to identify what was happening. I just made wrong choices about who I was, who I was, and who I would become in life. And stepping away from that, I think is the most courageous thing I've ever done. So far. I think that having a tech company in India, I mean, maybe that's more courageous now, but at the time, and you know, when I stepped away, you know, at 3031, it was most courageous thing I had ever done, because I was successful at it in other people's eyes. And it's very difficult when other people already particularly those who love you the most, you know, your family members, your friends, and they already have you pegged in a certain corner on a shelf, looking a certain way, and you kind of say, wait a minute, no, that's not my spot, I actually want to be in another position that impacts everybody around you. So the people around you, they were not encouraging at all about me giving up law, about me trying to you know, as far as they were concerned, they're like, you're going from a lawyer to be a teacher, you know, that was just such a disgrace. You know, it was a very difficult thing, but I knew, I just knew deep inside, you know, what I was doing was not aligned to why I'm here. And I think I, I feel so fortunate that I asked, and I was able to answer that question, why are you here? Right? Because I, you know, if I look at it, and the bigness of it, we're just passing through. And we're here. And I think when we are in flow with why we're here, it feels different. And I know that now, it feels very, very different.

 

Farah Nanji: 26:41

  

It really, really does. It just flows effortlessly, no matter what obstacles come you just you know, you're like water is very fluid, you just you just move with the ocean. I watched a talk recently, where you shared that you have a you have a short lifespan on your hand, and I actually have the same and throughout my early 20s I adopted this philosophy of live fast die young, and you know, I race cars, I do all these crazy things, I have no fear when it comes to taking risk. But as I entered my 30s, I really let go of this belief, because I realised it became a huge limiting belief. And I was actually sabotaging maybe my health and like different decisions that you just make. And I'm curious to know about the relationship you have now with your lifeline and how it's guided your inner path.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 27:23

  

Yeah. Wow, I didn't know you had that. And you know what, exactly what you said is exactly what I did also. So, you know, I'll give you a funny story about this lifeline. So for me, my mom had this guy come from India when I was a child, and you know, he would read everybody's hand and he put it on a tape. And I think it was like 12 or 13, at the time on the tape actually said she has this really short lifeline. And it was always you know, and I interpreted that to mean, I'm going to die, like at any time, right? I'm going to die really young. And I think we don't realise subconsciously, the impact on the decisions we make. You know, maybe that's why I collected all of these degrees. Maybe that's why I tried to be a grown up, you know, way before but what was really interesting about it, Faraj you know, and kind of very it's a great kind of symbol of me letting go like you let it go. I bought my first life insurance policy when I was 18 years old. I'm not kidding you. I went and I bought a million dollar life insurance policy. And I remember that life insurance guy sitting across the table from me, and he's like, but you're 18 years old? Why are you buying a life insurance policy? I will always remember his name, Larry chefman was the insurance guy because he was just sitting there going, like, what are you doing? Like, you're like, you're in college, I was in law school, actually, at the time, I'd already got into my first year of law school. And I'm like, and I want any of my like my beneficiaries, cuz I wasn't, you know, my beneficiaries were my parents, right? So I was like, I would like to leave my mother and my father, and not that they needed anything. But this was the frame of mind that I was in that I was going to die very young. And I just wanted to make sure you know, if anything happened, my parents were owed and everyone was gonna be okay. And here's what I did for I paid the insurance policy, like for the next 10 years, like upfront, because I was thinking, if anything, anything happens, and like, you know, at least I know, everyone is covered. And I remember, when I turned 3132, when I left law, I stopped paying the premiums. And I remember Larry called me and he was like, let's time again because the 10 years have passed. And he was like, it's time again to you know, to pay your premiums. And I said to him, No, I'm not paying for it. I'm gonna let it go. And he was like, well, you have enough interest I don't know how insurance works. You have enough interest for it to cover you, you know, for I don't know a couple more years and I'll call you back in a couple more years and you tell me what you want to do. And when I called me back after a couple years and I said no, I'm not paying the premiums. I'm actually going to live freely. And everybody's gonna be fine. It was this letting go of me like look Though of law, letting go of all of those things, it was just this symbolic thing of going on, like, you're going to be fine. And you know, any of us can die tomorrow. And you have to just let this thing go. So that's what it was for me. vara it was though, you know, up until that moment, you are correct. I was self sabotaging myself making decisions, not thinking through? What might be the consequences of that? Because I didn't think I was going to be around for it.

 

Farah Nanji: 30:32

  

Yeah, it's so true. It's crazy, isn't it? How can these things have such a big impact on? It really is, it really is. Now, a topic that you're incredibly passionate about is human is human skills and soft skills. In particular, you said in the past that if you think of a human in terms of a house, then the hard skills would be the walls, but the space in between the walls is where you find the human skills. I love it. I love that analogy. So talk to me more about the ideas behind this.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 31:01 

 

Sure. So let's, you know, let's think about any, you know, for anyone, your audience, or even yourself any incredible doctor that you know, or any incredible human that you know. And if I were to ask you, why are they? Why do you think that they stand out? You're not going to tell me because they have a Stanford degree, or they have an Oxford degree or, or something relating to some heart, you, you will tell me most of the time, you know, it's the way they made me feel when I'm around them. Or it's the way that they put creative ideas together. Like I don't know where they come up with that. It's always the human side of us. That makes us exceptional in our unique combinations. It's the quirkiness, you know, that's the weirdest person I ever met. But I love it. Right? So it's always those things. And when you think about any job role, today, and the majority of job roles are people facing right where we interact with humans. That's where we spend most of our time. We spend most of our time You know, there's studies, Stanford, Harvard, and Carnegie Mellon has a study out of even Google through project oxygen, you know, 80 to 85% of top performers at Google are not there because of their tech skills. You know, they're there because of their human skills, right? Things like coaching things like empathy, things like, you know, listening. The same in terms of the studies and most jobs and most roles out there 85% of the success it is humans get those. The reason why we have not really focused on them is that we take it for granted, that we all have them. And you know, if I were to say to you how many not so great communicators Do you know, we know a lot of that right? Or how many people you know that are not creative? We know a lot of people who are not creative, right? We just take it for granted. That's one. And number two, those who are or if we're teaching those things, we don't know how to measure them. So how do I measure that? You know, Faraj is very results oriented? So really good with self direction? Or how do I measure? You know, Faraj has a unique combination of creative thinking and critical thinking. So there's never really been a measure, which is, you know, where, you know, I focus my time in terms of kind of developing that patent on that measure. So the human skill is the driver. And I think as we go more into a world where we don't know, you know, there's a Dell Technologies study that says 85% of the jobs of 2030, we don't know what they are, I mean, you just have to look at the emerging jobs, right? 130 3 million over the next two years. We don't know what the hard skills are. So do I go learn Python? Or do I go learn if I'm an attacker, or do I go learn to know those things, but I pretty much know as a human coming to the table, I might need to communicate, collaborate critical thinking, I need some emotional IQ. So those are the given. That's the thread. That's the given. So let's focus on those areas. And that's why I focus on those areas for

 

Farah Nanji: 34:04

  

it's amazing what you've been, what you've designed with gleek I, you know, I'm in awe of how you've kind of created this incredible system through AI to actually measure these, these skills. Here's a question for you, that I'd love to get your perspective on. Do you believe there is a connection between astrology and the soft skills that a human might be more innately drawn towards? Hmm, have you ever thought about

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 34:28

  

that? No, never really thought about that. So if I look at you know, so, we all come with just astrology. You know how, in terms of astrology, we all have some kind of alignment to something whether it is water stars, Earth. It's the same with human skills. All of us have a knee jerk alignment with something that we come that comes very, very naturally to us. So there are some people who don't have to make an effort. And there are some things that we come Wait. So for me, it would be my communication and my empathy. It comes, I don't have to practice that I've had it since I was a child. For someone else, it might be something else. So I think, if I look at it from a human perspective some of the things are very innate to us, just like in astrology, some of the things, you know, absolutely, you know, it's, it's how we arrived, right? So the time of our birth, the, you know, aligns to, I think there are certain things in human skills that are innate to us. However, I will say this big however, which is very different from astrology, so astrology is very static, right? You don't change anything in astrology, you know, today, it's not like you're the year of the ox today, and tomorrow, you're the year of the rat and, and if you are a water sign, you're always going to be a water sign versus so there's a certain static knees with astrology, with human skills, it's, you know, you know, if I were to ask you, how many people do you have, know who have talent and got nowhere. We all know so many people without talent, and it's the same thing with human skills, if you don't practice it, and you don't sharpen it, it becomes very dull. And those people who don't have it naturally, just like an athlete who works on something, and they sharpen it, they can actually get really good at it. So unlike astrology, that's static, the human skills are very dynamic. It's in your hands and in your control, in terms of what it is, you come with certain facets that are natural to you, but if you don't polish it, sharpen it, practice it, just like habit. It will not really, you know, kind of get you anywhere. So I think that would be the differentiator for me Farah in the booth.

 

Farah Nanji: 36:50

  

Yeah, definitely, I think having self awareness is key. But then obviously, being aware of how it could defy it, like, you know, how it could manifest in your life. And also what you know that because there's then there's obviously positives and negatives to each, each thing. So being aware of what you could be more, what could be yours that you're limited, what can hold you back, you know, that is interesting to kind of observe. So you talked a little bit about the World Economic Forum. And just to add there that, you know, they rank skills, the soft skills such as creativity and critical thinking as number two and three, for the top skills that employees will need to thrive in the fourth industrial revolution. Hey, you, we hope you're enjoying today's episode. We're on a serious mission here to create one of the world's best podcast series. And we'd be so grateful if you could support us in any way by becoming a patron of the show. There's a tier to every level from earlybird tiers where you get downloads to all my music with some super cool ninja stickers to our VIP mission, make it here's where you get epic rewards like exclusive footage, it never gets aired, the Charles does submit questions to our guests with signed copies of books from them, DJ lessons, one to one coaching and a whole load of super cool ninja mission maker merchandise, you can start supporting us for less than what it costs you to fill up your car for a month by simply heading over to www patreon.com forward slash mission makers. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the show. So why do you think that companies cut budgets towards developing these skills? Is it because they can't? There hasn't been that measurement, you know, very direct measurement in place. But when in fact, these are the ones that they struggle the most with in terms of their, you know, their employees and developing this culture amongst their teams.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 38:32

  

So I think measure is one facet of it. The second part of it is, if you look out there, there are not a lot of people teaching it really well. So it's not like hard skills learning, you know, in terms of the human skills where you go in, and it's memory work. So you know, think about it right? If I'm going to learn digital marketing, I go in, I can take a weekend course or a course on Udemy, I get some right or wrong answers. And it's human skills, it's the application. So it requires there are three things required for human skills to actually learn it, and measure it. And it is you have to come to it often the degree of difficulty of application changes, and you must have a feedback loop. It requires way greater effort. So I think for corporations, the lack of measure means they can't tie it to an item in their, you know, balance sheet or their you know, in terms of their statement, right. So number one, there's that aspect, I can't measure it, like Do you have any critical thinking or creativity like how do I measure that in terms of your KPIs? And then number two will be why is it that you just can't go to a weekend leadership in a weekend course and leadership and become a leader? And it doesn't work that way either. Right? So there is this idea of how you make it a habit and practice it requires greater investment. So I think the combination of the booth makes it harder not to crack and certainly it's not low hanging fruit. And I think that's why corporations have a hard time with it.

 

Farah Nanji: 40:04

  

Very interesting. So do you think that COVID has actually had a negative effect on people's soft skills? Or do you think as we alluded to earlier, it's one of the most profound times to change things and particularly test our humanity and focus on rescaling ourselves and really realising deep within ourselves if what we've, you know, dedicated our life or our time to is really been fulfilling us.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 40:26

  

So I think it's the best time for human skills. This particular I can tell you prior to COVID, you know, it's been a couple of years, I've been working on this, and people have been wondering, I'm sure when I see them, I get all excited talking about, they were like, what has she been smoking, right? Because literally, nobody was very excited until COVID. And then COVID happened, and then all of a sudden, the biggest companies in the world, you know, I feel so honoured and humbled are having conversations with me going, Oh, that's what you've been up to. So I think if anything, COVID kind of levelled the playing field, and brought us back to the really kind of simple of, as I said to you, you know, it's no longer your title, and you're in a big office, and you're all the ornaments of what success, everybody is on a zoom call in their homes, needing to have human connections and connect with each other. And it really kind of brought some humility back, and us to really kind of self examine and go, Wait a minute, this has been missing all along. So it's the best time now. And if you look globally, there's a huge, you know, huge movement happening in this right. So you see, for the first time schools, really looking at, you know, we have like Western Governors University. That's the first competency based type of university, we have many high schools, you know, looking at social and emotional learning as a core part of curriculum. We have so many startups being funded in the area of, you know, just this whole area of human skills, soft skills, social and emotional learning. So I think COVID has been great for bringing us back to this, which is a really crucial thing when it comes to the labour market. Right, because this is what the labour market, if you look at what they've been seeing, they've been missing, and where they're spending their training dollars. If you look at the LinkedIn training reports, it's all on the human skills that most of the spend is happening because students are not coming out with those skills, you know, well honed and well sharpened.

 

Farah Nanji: 42:28

  

Particularly when it's, you don't you don't have this opportunity to develop it face to face. It's very hard in a digitalized context to develop that. That collaboration and you know, all those types of things. Talking about big companies, you have currently got a huge contract with the World Expo in the skills approach for their conference attendees. This is amazing. I heard somebody say recently, it was like the Olympics of business. So what does this big mean for you? Sure.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 42:57

  

So my contract is with Dubai cares, which is the UAE government arm that kind of does a lot of outward work in education globally. And it's the future is a human pavilion, and we are powering the whole, all 25 million plus visitors. Expo, they will get benchmarked on jobs of the future. And then they will get upskilled for those jobs of the future for three to six months. It's a pretty big deal. It's a pretty big deal. Because you know, a couple of things. You're correct, it's likely, you know, the world fear is where the biggest innovations of your world kind of come. You know, many of them have come out of world fairs. Number two, the fact that we will have, as a startup, 25 million users on our product, applying human skills to workplace situations means we will have the largest data leak of application of human skills in workplace situations that would exist. What does that mean, you know, jobs of the future. So those job boards that we have now like LinkedIn, and you know, indeed, and monster, I mean, we all know, resumes are the absolute worst predictor of performance. Those job portals are not going to exist in their current form forms a couple years from now, particularly with automation. So there are many things that are going to be automated and how do I find a human with the right combination of human skills? How do I find that that's the data set that we're building coming out of Expo is a crucial data set of where someone you know, in the perfect world, I should be able a couple years from now to go into Google and put, you know, DJ creative, great communicator and Faraj should come up, right? And then I can go look at your degrees and then I can go look at all of those other things, but the ability to look at your quality of thought as a human and how you apply that, in situations is how we are actually going in the future, I truly believe how it is we're going to identify human for jobs project side hustles, whatever it is, we want to call what that gig economy would look like in the future. And as of right now, you know, we're one of the very few very focused on that.

 

Farah Nanji: 45:25

  

That's so exciting, I'm so excited for you, and the data that's going to you're going to gather throughout this whole process. And I remember a few years back, you mentioned how a 21 day entry interview can pay dividends for new starters and your company. We have a lot of entrepreneurs who listened to the show, and I think it would be amazing if you could share, what does this sort of 21 day structure look like? And what's the kind of impact that you're that that can arise from that?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 45:52

  

Sure, sure. You're talking about my thesis paper at Harvard. And we made it into a publication, I was so excited about it. So what we talked about, I mean, I want you to think about it, anyone new, coming to a situation does not come with all the bias, you and I would have, and certainly for your startups. I mean, for me, I'm a startup founder also. And it's always interesting, because we are so thick in the forest, most of the times and so close to product and people I'm you know, we're deeply flawed as humans, all of us, none of us are, you know, kind of miss this train with all of the bias and all the filters of how we see things, that having a new hire, having them kind of giving them free rein to look throughout the company and just point out for you, things that they're seeing that you are missing completely, is probably the greatest asset you would have with a new hire. And so many times, particularly for big companies, we don't do that, right? We kind of pigeonhole someone new into a particular rule. And we want to start telling them what to do versus going Wait a minute, this is new set of eyes, you know, providing new hire someone who's competent to you know, all of the, you know, things that you're looking for, who can look at something and go Why are you guys doing stuff that way? Or can you explain to me because it gives you an idea of what user experience might look like in terms of products that things are missing, processes that might be missing that completely? You know, so this is why I felt, you know, in terms of that, you know, that article that you read, to that 21 days of someone coming in to a new company is so crucial. And if you give them free rein across even areas, not in their domain, put them in the finance department, even if they have no financial background, just to see what they say. Because you might be just missing things where no cross domain knowledge is, you know, a goldmine. You know, you don't have to be from a particular area to kind of notice something, though, why is that happening? And I think that's what I was trying to get across with that article is, you know, those clean eyes looking at something you're working on going, here's a spot that you missed the blind spot, or the hidden area.

 

Farah Nanji: 48:09

  

Very interesting. It's almost like, yeah, being in like, almost like being a child and like having no, no bias. And just kind of like exploring it with a complete curiosity. Yes, definitely. That's very interesting. Hope some people will take away some very interesting thoughts on that and implement that in their own companies, and things like that. And the last question I want to ask you around this sort of topic is that compassion is very important in leadership. And yet many leaders struggle with actually developing this. And sometimes their workplaces become places of cyberbullying, and they don't have very positive environments. What do you think, is one of the first things a leader should do to cultivate a culture of compassion?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 48:59  

 

As a leader, you're not always you know, you have to also be forgiving of yourself that you're not always going to be the most compassionate leader, I think. And I think if you start from that place everyone is entitled to have a bad day, even including you. And you create a workplace that is vulnerable enough to allow people to raise their hands and be able to say that, you know, that's a start in terms of a compassionate, you know, so often, I think, not being able to just recognise that we're humans, and we're gonna walk in with all kinds of each of us have all kinds of baggage and all kinds of emotions. And you know, I have days where I actually say to my team, I'm really having a bad day. It's not a great day to talk to me. And they will know, they send me chocolates or they send me like You know, just virtual stuff. And they're like, okay, we're not talking to her today, like, it's not happening today. But I need to be able to do that. With my team, I have a fairly young team, because then I give them permission themselves to also do that. And I think part of that compassionate leader is giving us space to just be right, to not leave any parts of ourselves at the door. And if you allow people to walk in with their full selves, it's going to be messy, it's not going to be perfect, people are gonna have bad days. And that's all that's the beauty of being human and being very kind of forgiving with each other. So always start from a place. You know, one of the things I often tell them to start from a place if someone is upsetting you. And if something doesn't feel right, ask a question from a place of curiosity, versus blame. So instead of going, you know, that was really terrible, I think that it started kind of coming down on someone from a place of curiosity, I wonder what you were, you were thinking when you did, you know, whatever. And curiosity then allows that person to exhale and not be defensive. And that's a great act of compassion. So coming from a place of curiosity, I think also coming from a place of vulnerability and showing that you know, you need compassion also. So, I can tell you, as a leader, I have recently said to my team, why has nobody ever asked me if I'm having a good day? And they were kind of taken back by that. And I said, because, you know, it shouldn't be that I have to come to stand up every single day making sure everyone is okay. I said, maybe I would love it if someone checks in on me during the day and goes, how are you doing? Are you having a great day? Is everything okay? So I think also being vulnerable, as a leader, and also showing what you need and asking for what you need, even if it's from a vulnerable place, I think it's very important and an active for them, of compassion. And the third part is, as I said to you, leaving them the room, to be able to just be who they are, right? You know, and voice up and speak up when you need space and room and not leave parts of themselves at the door. So that would be the three things I would say to you, Faraj, in terms of compassion as a leader,

 

Farah Nanji: 52:21

  

Thank you so much for sharing that with us so profoundly. And, yeah, it's amazing how so many people just don't ask, you know, how are you? And you ask them that question back? I think it's, you know, it's, it should just be that you should always ask that question back, it's you having it's a two way relationship. And both people have invested a lot of time and energy to be in that space. And it has to be held with the same level of care and respect. And also something that you said there that we were having a chat about earlier about, you know, taking the space away. And sometimes some of the hardest things as a founder of a startup is like, you know, you're developing this culture, there's DNA in your organisation that reflects you. And there's so much when you're a founder that you have to be in so many different areas, so many different hats. And, you know, you just you it's what you sort of said to me earlier about just letting go and like letting your team take over that and just and kind of just detaching yourself with a process but yet your spirit is still embodied through how they you know, communicate, how they deliver the customer experience, whatever, whatever it is. So very, very interesting. I love I love this quote of yours as well that you said about your quality of yeses increases by all the things you say no to and you actually have a specific not to do list, which I absolutely love. By the way, most of us have to do lists who ever thought let's have a not to do list. And that was that was me as being quite guarded about who enters your space, which is also very important. So why do you think people struggle to say no, and what do you think that says about the way humans are programmed?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 53:52

  

Sure. And I love that I recently had to do that again to remind myself to do that. You know, we just started the year and I was really getting burned out I was just the fourth week of January and I realised it was the fourth week of January and I had done I think eight speaking gigs plus you know, I my pipeline in business I had to bring in was like a quarter million dollars plus I'm building product Plus, I mean I was literally at that breaking point I was not exercising and I just reminded myself and I went to my EA and I said cancel everything so by the way for a year The only thing I'm doing this month in terms of strength

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 54:35  

 

God I feel everything off. She's like Are you sure? And I said yes. I'm just like I need to just and you know I started training again twice a week. Just to be able to get back to centre you know when it comes from this space for you cannot give what you do not have within you and if you show up at 50% Because you're overworked, doesn't matter, if you spend 10 hours or 20 hours doing something, all you can give is that 50%. And if you really want to autograph, your presence, your work, like a Picasso painting, and that's what I earnestly want to do, I think my customers deserve that I think my employees deserve that I think anybody who turns their time and attention, even yourself, today, I owe it to you to show up at my 200% that that can be autograph, it means I have to make sure that I do whatever it takes, that allows me to do that. And that involves saying no to things that you might genuinely say yes to it to appease, to look good to be accepted to, you know, there, you know, the list goes on, whether it's family workplace, you know, there's a 99 list of people kind of, the higher you get up in the ladder, the more the requests will be, right. So that's one. Number two, for me, also, it's guarding my personal space. So you know, I do believe I am that average of the five people I spend the most time with, and I have to be really guarded about, even though you're running a company, sometimes you don't want to be around the energy of certain people, even in your own organisation, right? Because remember, human beings are bringing, they might just be having a bad day, for about a week. And you have to pick up on that. And I because I'm a very open energy I absorb, I have not learned that gift yet of blocking my energy. You know, so many people have told me that. So I can come out of talking to someone and feel like a steamroller, just rolled over me, because I've just absorbed if they had negativity on them, if there was, you know, some people are great, and you know, they shield but I think that's my, that's the double edged sword of having the gift of connecting with people is because you're so open. You know, I can connect in a minute at the deepest level with someone, but it's because of that openness, it's the same way, if that person had negative inner energy, I absorbed that immediately. So I protect my space, I protect myself and I spend a lot of time alone. I spent a lot of time like in nature, hugging trees, exercising, you know, I recently visited this weekend, the expo pavilion that just opened up sustainability. And I literally went on. I hug the tree, and I'm like, you get me. So it goes back to who you want to be in the world? And how do you want to show up? And that if I use that as my kind of my truenorth, then I can do you know, the not to do list? And I've learned that no is a complete statement. So I don't even have to give an explanation. Can you do that? And I go, No. It's a complete statement. And it's okay. So I encourage everybody to get you know that and I have to remind myself, I'm not perfect at it yet. I have to keep reminding myself also on that list, as I just told you.

 

Farah Nanji: 58:12

  

Yeah, it's definitely quality versus quantity, and a huge part of nature playing a big, big role in that as well to remind yourself to stay grounded to that, to your plate really being a female tech founder, still not so common in our world today. But people like you are turning the wheel for things like that to happen, which is amazing. So what advice do you have for women who would like to pursue a career in tech and start their own businesses within this field?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 58:42

  

Sure. So I would say to you that remember, I've gone through one career already. So I'm going to kind of address those females who have gone through one career, you know, for me, it was law, I don't come with a tech background. The fact that I can have a tech company, I have a patent filed on an algorithm, but I'm not really even good at math. Anybody can do it if I can do it. And I think that knowing you know that self awareness of knowing what I was really good at, and what I was really weak at and surrounding myself with a team of people to complement that any female today, I don't care. You know, what age you are, what background you have, you are able and I think the world we live in today, most of us are going to be involved in tech in some way or another. It's hard. I mean, it's darn hard. I'm not gonna lie to you. It's the hardest thing I've ever done running a tech company and you know, having a tech team in India and there's, you know, cultural differences and there's all kinds of stuff that breaks all the time and understanding what a tech stack is and API's and you name it, hardest thing I've ever done, but how fulfilling how fulfilling to know if you ask me this question three years ago, would you be running a tech company today I would have I would have laughed at you. And the fact that I'm doing it, and you know, I'm stretching tall, wide, I wake up every morning kind of going, holy crap, what did I get myself into, but I'm having the time of my life, Laura. And I encourage any woman out there, if you have just that whisper in your soul that says there's something there, and it might involve tech. And even if you have no background in it, I would say go look.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:00:27

  

Yes, very, very solid advice. Okay, so we've got moving into the next section of our interview, we've got a little q&a from our audience, you've sent in a couple of questions. So Ali asks, What can children of conservative backgrounds do to help their families let go of their societal driven expectations that they may come from?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:00:49

  

So, you know, I did a graduation speech on this one time, and here's the advice I gave to, you know, the kids and the parents, you know, when our parents, conservative conservative parents say to us, I would like you to be, you know, let's look at the traditional careers, a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, what they're really saying is, I would like you to be respected, I would like you to have financial freedom, I would really like you to do something that makes a difference to others in the world. And I think if you can get the conversation going I can do those things, and also be in my area of strength, and that might be a musician, and that might be a chef, or that might be a drone pilot, or that might be something else. It's just that we don't have the vocabulary, and in many times the vocabulary of expressing that, but that's really what a parent and every parent wants for their child, right? Every parent wants their child to be respected, have financial freedom, they just don't have the vocabulary to go, well. What would that look like and sound like in something that I'm not really sure what that looks like, and sounds like. So I think being able to express it without vocabulary is also a child, very expressive, kind of showing them the differences. And if you're also aware of your strengths, and the things that bring you joy, I think a lot of times we hide those parts of ourselves, you know, I'm the perfect example of that, right? We hide the parts of ourselves. And it's part of that self awareness, right? Well, when I started becoming self aware of it, I was able to then have a vocabulary about it. And to be able to go, No, I like that and not like that. So I think if we take the time sooner in terms of, to have that vocabulary, and to be able to be self expressive about it, we have a better chance of being able to choose what we would like to sooner rather than later. And I think we live in a world now far from our children, you know, so for me in my 20s is, you know, I thought I was gonna be a lawyer for the rest of my life. I think the world right now we're, even if you're from conservative parents, I think most parents are aware that you're not supposed to have it all together in your 20s anymore. I think that's fairly across the board. So I think there's a lot more room, whether you're from conservative parents or not to figure stuff out. And most people are then kind of settling down and getting a little serious, maybe in their early 30s, mid 30s. So I just think timing now is also very different, right? versus as I said, when I was I remember being 21 or 22. And four, you're gonna laugh at this, but coming from a Asian background, I remember my grandmother looking at me going, you're not married yet, your face will get very hard or no man will marry you. And that was the concern, right? I think we're no longer in that time. And I just think there's a lot of time to experiment now for young people, even conservative families.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:03:59

  

Definitely. And there's so many more role models to look up to the internet has shared that has

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:04:02 

 

absolutely, absolutely, absolutely,

 

Farah Nanji: 1:04:06

  

yeah. 100% Okay, the next question comes from Jessica and she says, You worked with a famous author behind the book, the monk Who Sold His Ferrari great book, by the way, Robin, by Robin Sharma. Are you now part of the 5am Club? What does your morning routine look like? And what were your key takeaways from that experience of working with him? Sure,

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:04:24

  

sure. So when I was doing my and it wasn't the monk who saw the red Ferrari. It was one of his other books that I read. It was him and Tim Robbins I read in my late 20s when I was trying to make my next step, my next big move. I think Tony Robbins was the giant within if I'm not mistaken, to awaken the diamond women or unleash the giant within or something along those lines. thick, thick book and how I met Robin I actually wrote to him and I said to him, I had a foundation at the time and I really would love for you to come to the Caribbean. And I would like to throw some workshops to kids, the government, and adults. And his business manager Jason wrote me back. And you know, the world is so funny and small Faraj Jason happened to be my same age group. And you know, where I went to boarding school in Toronto, he went to the boys boarding school next door, so we knew the same people. And they came to the Caribbean. And that's how I ended up meeting Robin, and he had some events for the foundation. Also, with the government and with the public, he's a very private person. So this is what I will tell you about authors and books. And, you know, having that experience in terms of Robin, you know, so his book had a huge impact on me, personally. So that's number one. Number two. Having that I reached out to the author. And here I had an author who got back to me, and actually I met and actually had a business relationship with, which is a beautiful thing. Number three, we expect the authors of our book of books to be what they write. And I think a lot of times, that's like the biggest. So that was one of the first things I learned was like, okay, they're not exactly like what they write in the book. It's a topic that they're writing about. And, you know, Robin is a beautiful person, but I really got to know the team around him. So he was very self aware of who he was, and he's extremely introverted, does not talk to anyone really kind of closes up, you know, in terms of Showtime. So when he's on stage, and when he, it's showtime. But prior to that, he locks himself away from the world. But, you know, very self aware to have a team that, you know, I you know, I became very good friends with the team even today, I'm, you know, still friends, you know, with this particular team, he is what inspired me to write my own book. So, you know, so many beautiful things came out of that era of just reading a book and being deeply touched by the book and going, getting curious and going, let me reach out to this person. So yeah, very positive things.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:07:17

  

Definitely. Well, it's only ever one email or one call away, and you never know who will answer back, and how that is how a very interesting or beautiful relationship can manifest itself. So definitely very good. So we're getting into the final part of our chat today. It's a quick fire round, 60 seconds on each question. So the first question I'm gonna ask you is I'm going to name some notable females who are changing the world and I just want you to tell me the first word that pops into your head. Sure. Cool. Again, Michelle Obama.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:07:51 

 

badass.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:07:54 

 

Greta Thunberg?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:07:56  

 

Green.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:07:58  

 

Okay, and last one. Malala?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:08:02  

 

critical, critical thinking,

 

Farah Nanji: 1:08:04  

 

critical thinking is nice. Okay. How would you define genius?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:08:11  

 

Being able to see around corners.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:08:14  

 

Nice. What are you currently reading? If, if any

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:08:19 

 

five books at a time? I'm always

 

Farah Nanji: 1:08:24  

 

Okay. What are you most afraid of?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:08:29  

 

settling?

 

Farah Nanji: 1:08:31  

 

Hmm, very interesting. What was the last song that you listened to?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:08:38

  

Yesterday? Maroon five, sky full of stars.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:08:43  

 

Oh, that's nice. Okay, and the final question is that I know you like to start every day with the same two words. Thank you. So today sallyann. What are you thankful for?

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:08:54

  

I'll use my five fingers. I often have kids trace it, and each finger represents a gratitude I have. So today I'm grateful that it's 25 degrees outside and Dubai and sunny. I'm grateful that I got a cute haircut. I'm grateful that I feel thin. And I worked out this morning. I'm grateful that I am going to have an amazing cup of tea right now. And Faraj, I'm in gratitude that we are having this moment together.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:09:21

  

Oh, thank you so much. That was amazing. I learned so much from talking to you today. And that's what I actually love about doing these podcasts is I get to learn so much from the people that I really resonate with and yeah, so thank you, thank you Sallyann really appreciate the time that you've given us today. And particularly that you know, you haven't taken any other calls and stuff outside of life and work so I'm really really grateful that you know that you allowed us to enter your space today. We will obviously be sharing all the links where you can catch up with Sally Ann's work and particularly her platform bleak which is absolutely amazing. So yeah, thanks a lot Sally.

 

Sallyann Della Casa: 1:10:00  

 

Farah thank you wholeheartedly and to your audience. Thank you for giving me if you got this far. And you listen, I want to thank you wholeheartedly for sending you big hugs, digital hugs to all of you.

 

Farah Nanji: 1:10:12

  

Loved hearing Sally Ann's journey and the incredible advice she gave throughout the show. I'm definitely going to start writing and not to do less. I love that. Her energy was just infectious and I hope you guys really enjoyed it too. We've got some amazing guests coming on the show this season, so be sure to subscribe to the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube and wherever else you listen to your podcasts. Thank you again for listening. You can reach out to us @Missionmakers or at @DJ.N1nja on Instagram. And if you're interested in supporting the show and getting some cool rewards like DJ lessons and life coaching, don't forget to visit www patreon.com/missionmakers.