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EP 001 / 28.10.2020



Farah Nanji: 0:01


You're listening to the Mission Makers show, a podcast that inspires humans to get into the mindset of success. My name is Farah Nanji, and I'm the founder of a business in the motorsports industry that explores leadership lessons from things like Formula One. I'm also a DJ and music producer in the underground electronic scene, and a public speaker on key topics like resilience, building high performance teams, overcoming learning difficulties and stimulating creativity. And to tie it all together, I love writing thought provoking content as a journalist for these industries, which are so unique in themselves. On this show, I'm sitting down with some of the most inspiring and driven people I've met around the world to talk about their processes, their failures, the lessons they've learned, and how they're truly making an impact for this world.


So we're kicking off Mission Makers with one of Formula One's biggest TV personalities, Rosanna Tenannt. Being in the public eye is not an easy feat; Rosanna has been presenting F1 week in and week out travelling the world for the last few years, and has become a household name in motorsports broadcasting. We caught up with her just before the F1 season managed to kick off during the pandemic, and in this episode we get to hear what fuels her ambition in such a competitive sport, and also hear firsthand what it was like on the ground as she was in Australia when the F1 season was about to kick off in March, just as COVID-19 was taking over the world. Just before we begin if you're interested in watching the video version of this podcast, head over to YouTube and type in Mission Makers Rosanna Tennant to see the show.


Hey, Rosanna. How you doing? 


Rosanna Tennant: 1.47 


I'm good. Thanks. How are you?


Farah Nanji: 1.48


Very well. Thank you. Nice to see, you


Rosanna Tennant:  1:49  


I know, it's so weird isn't it, not seeing people face to face. I seem to be doing a lot of Zoom calls. So this is how I kind of interact with the world as it is my new normal.


Farah Nanji:  2:02  


Yeah! Let’s start with the first question. Tell me how you discovered this passion for journalism or, generally what you're passionate about in life? Where did it all stem from?


Rosanna Tennant  2:15  


I didn't really know when being a newsreader was what I always wanted to be. But I remember having a chat with my parents, I must have been about 14 or 15. They weren't trying to push me in a direction or find a career for me at that age. But I think we were just chatting about options for A Levels, because of course, you sort of have to make those decisions by that point. And I remember talking about what I enjoyed, and it was very much along the lines of writing, I loved my acting. And so we sort of floated a few ideas around. My parents often thought it would be good for me to maybe go into law, maybe a barrister. And that's something that I have to say, I still have moments where I'm like, oh, that'd be an exciting career to explore. But I think we sort of chatted through a few options and journalism seemed to be one of the subjects that I was interested in and things I like doing. And then from that moment on, it sort of became my go to line. If someone's parents, friend or a teacher said, you know, oh, gosh, do you know what you want to do? Do you know what you want to be? I always used to say, I want to be a newsreader. People probably got really bored of it. But that was what I wanted. But I think a newsreader has changed anyway, I don't think that's necessarily a job that you set out to do now. I think there are so many ways we get news now. And that sort of traditional role has changed so much. So that was sort of the direction I started pointing myself in. So yeah, it's been quite a long time that I knew. And I think that's quite rare from speaking to friends and people, even in the industry. Now, they weren't totally sure that's what they wanted to do. But I did. I did have this sort of direction of travel that I knew I wanted to go in.


Farah Nanji:  4:21  


And where did Formula One play into that?


Rosanna Tennant  4:28  


No, it wasn't motorsport. And actually, that was just a really lucky coincidence. I went to university and I did languages because I saw it as a sort of opening door. Subject wise, I did French and Spanish. And then I did a master's at City University in Broadcast Journalism, so that focused across television and radio. And that was fabulous. That was an amazing year in London at City Uni. It was very practical. We did a radio show every week, and after that, I knew I wanted to keep trying to get into the industry. And I was really lucky throughout my time at City that we would be put in touch with broadcasters. So I went and did some time at the BBC. I worked at a local paper, it was very, you know, it's all very sort of things that people tell you to go and work at your local paper, which again, is something that will change and the generations coming through. Now that I try and give advice, it sounds very old fashioned. When I say go and work at your local paper,  it doesn't exist, which is really sad. But that's just the way things have changed. And then after City, I then went and worked at Sky and that was through a lecture that we had at City, someone from Sky came and said, you know, get in touch with me, if you want to come and see what we do at Sky, do an internship or whatever it might be. Just spend some time with us. And I was really reluctant. I really was bad at putting my ambition in word form. I was always just like, I just want to go and I'll show them I can do it. And I managed to write an email to this guy. And lots of people were saying that they've been asked to write a 500 word essay about why they wanted to be in broadcasting. I remember just being like, please don't ask me to write down 500 words. And thankfully, he just replied and said, yeah, do you want to come and work with us for a couple of weeks and I went and did that. And it was guest producing, which is fabulous. Trying to find lots of people who could come in and talk about different subjects and different news stories. Then I moved across the entertainment desk for a week and back onto the Sky News Sports desk. And it was just a really weird chance moment that one of the producers on the news desk said do you want to go with John Desborough. He's going to go to the Hilton on Park Lane for a McLaren event with Jenson Button. Oh, that sounds amazing, and thanks so much. But at the time, I was worried about what my brother would think as he is super keen on Formula One and has subsequently worked in Formula One as well. I remember just thinking, oh, no, actually, my brother, he would really enjoy that. But of course, I went. And I remember standing there watching the presenter, change the wheel on the car. And I'm just thinking all the time. And I remember thinking one day, I'd like to do that. And I think that was when slowly my newsreader ambition started to move a little bit more into the sort of presenter role. And I was very lucky. Because after that, I'd met someone at that filming day, who worked in the sports sponsorship industry, and sports marketing. And he very kindly said I should go and have some work experience at their agency when I finished at Sky and I was very stubborn. I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to be at Sky forever. About a week later, I emailed the guy and said, actually, can I come and see you. So I went to work there. And that just happened to be an agency that focused on motorsport, sailing and cycling. So I went to work there. And it was tricky at that point, actually, because I realised I wasn't going to be in a presenting role. It was finding sponsorship for sports properties. So there was a little bit of like letting go of my dream, so to speak. But I think you just kind of have to trust that certain opportunities are giving you practice for things that are coming for you later on down the line.


And so yes, and then it all kind of kicked through, I went off and did another little job at a shoe shop of all places. Again, just so weird, because you can start panicking thinking like I'm deviating from the grand plan. But I think as long as you make the most of it, I hope I did. I set up a sort of interview series where I interviewed some of the top wearers for that shoe brand. I went and asked them questions. We did a little film and gave them a pair of shoes. So that was a great experience. And then after that, about a year after I'd had that sky experience, the old agency called me and said, would I like to go and present a motorsport channel. And again, I was really lucky because it was at a time that sort of digital media and YouTube was really kicking off, it was the end of 2012. And that afforded me an opportunity because I'm not sure, I think it would have maybe been a longer slog, one that I would be have been so happy to do. But I think these opportunities on YouTube really, really helped me and got me on camera probably much sooner than I ever would have if I stayed sort of doing the slow traditional route.


Farah Nanji  9:37  


Very interesting. Yes. Sounds like a lot of doors, but they eventually led you to this path. Do you feel like your intuition has guided you through other moments that particularly when you know, like you said you worked in the shoe shop and it kind of deviated a little bit away from the grand plan? Do you find that intuition kind of helped you in that moment?

Rosanna Tennant  9:57  


I think there's obviously the element that you've got to earn money, and you need to have a job or I was one of those people that wants to have a job. And I think there were moments when I was a bit like, oh, this can't be right, because this isn't going to get me to where I want to go. And I actually remember a couple of years ago, when I just secured some different opportunities,  a little job somewhere. And I remember speaking to my dad on the phone, and he was so sweet. He said, oh, look, you know, your shoe shop days behind you. And I did say to him, and but you have to remember, that's all led me to this point, if I hadn't done the shoe shop, venture, and done the marketing, selling men's shoes, I wouldn't have ever got here because I wouldn't have done all those little routes to get to where I've ended up. And it's that classic phrase from Steve Jobs, saying that the dots will join up looking backwards. And I think it's just having the trust that once you get to where you want to be all those little routes have made it interesting and have helped you get there. It's like a journey. And you don't want to just go in a straight line, you want to kind of wiggle a little bit to see some fun things on the way. And I had some great times working at a shoe shop. So you know, it was all meant to be quite fatalistic like that.


Farah Nanji 11:15  


Yeah. And just the last question about the journey within that, how was your childhood? And how has that played into your life?


Rosanna Tennant  11:25  


I think my parents are hugely supportive. And like I said, we sat down and had a conversation about what I was interested in, it wasn't a, you must be a lawyer, banker, doctor, whatever it might be, you know, the sort of big careers that people perhaps sometimes have pushed into by their parents. My parents have always been very, very positive about what I can achieve, not in a not in a pushy parent way at all. It's just sort of, go for it. Go for it, darling. You know, so I think I've always felt that if I give my absolute best, then something could be possible. I think it's always, I hope that I'm very much not entitled, but enabled by them to go off and do some wonderful things. So yeah, it was the happiest of childhoods. So I can't, I can't complain about that at all. And I've had amazing opportunities. And I just hope that I've made the most of each and every one of them with the support of my parents.


Farah Nanji  12:23  


So that being said, what sort of footprint do you want to leave on earth?


Rosanna Tennant  12:29  


Well, probably a really big footprint, because I've got such big feet.


On the footprint side of things, I think something that really matters to me is that people think I am good at what I do. I don't ever want to be one of those people that touches something and then heads off and they go, o, that wasn't done well. I just really want people to think, well, we need a job doing. Who's the best person for that? Okay, Rosanna, let's get her in. And I just always want to be remembered for having given my all, and hopefully have been a nice person to work with, through all those sorts of adventures and opportunities.


Farah Nanji  13:13  


Have there been any hurdles I've gotten in your way, particularly in Formula One now?

Rosanna Tennant 13:24  


Yeah, there have been hurdles. The problem is, I sort of think back to them at the time, they feel so stressful and surmountable, but they're sort of all probably just very day to day things, you know, it might be like logistics, or just going that extra mile to try and achieve something. And in terms of me, personally, I was always a little bit worried about what people thought of maybe how I sound. And that was always a worry, for me, I have to be honest, but I've been very lucky that I haven't had very much or hardly any negative feedback about that. I think that's something that's always been in the back of my mind, also about how I look and I don't really mean that like kind of what I wear or like, that's a thing, but actually my size, I am six foot two, I'm not what people would categorise as like a normal size for a woman. And obviously I interview much smaller athletes, just because of the industry I work in motorsport means that the guys and girls that compete have to be pretty slender, obviously very fit and pretty slight, but  it's easier to be smaller in a car, you don't want to be my height in a car, and that's why we don't see very, very tall drivers. So it's difficult for me when I'm interviewing them. When we were at university learning about broadcast journalism, you're always worrying about the eye level. You know, you don't want to have your interviewee looking up the whole time. And that's something that's actually really difficult for me to avoid. So If you're ever watching an interview that I do, you'll see I sort of dropped a leg here for a slight kind of crouch. They've even been times where drivers, some of the rally drivers, used to stand on concrete blocks. One mechanic I was interviewing stood on an engine, like a sorry, battery. So it's, um, that's always been in the back of my mind. And then a couple of years ago, when I started working, sort of more directly for Formula One. Um, and that had always been jokey, or those sort of moments where someone was standing on something or I was crouching, it was always very nice jokes. No one was being like, this looks ridiculous. And then I had a moment where one of the people who was sort of directing me thought that I would look silly on screen and said exactly those words, I would look silly on screen next to some of the drivers. And I was what, I think I was 29 at the time. So you know, long gone were the days of being bullied at school for my height. Yes, I get lots of people talking to me in the street, perhaps about my height or commenting on, you know, oh, my gosh, how tall are you? And that's always been there, but nothing horrible for a long time. And so to have someone that essentially controlled whether I would or I wouldn't make it telling me that I would look silly on camera, I was just in pieces. And I remember calling my mom, I'm saying I just don't know what to do. Because it's something I can't change. You know, these are physical attributes that so many people that live with, things we can't change. How am I going to get, I will never, I'll never make it. This is a nightmare. And I remember the next day I then went on camera with someone who had actually been quoted as someone that I would look silly next to on camera. So all the while we're live, and I'm standing next to the person that I've been told I would look silly, now I look silly, which isn't the best way to go into being live on camera. So there are those kind of setbacks. But equally and it sounds so cliche to say it's actually made me want to prove them wrong that I can do it, just because I'm sick of it, to me it makes absolutely no difference. And it would make no difference, if I was five foot two or four foot two or one foot two, like I It doesn't matter if you're good at your job, size, colour. religion doesn't matter. As long as you've shown up, done the hard work and the preparation, nothing should stand in the way of you being able to achieve what you've set out to. And for you to be successful.


Farah Nanji  17:38  


Yeah, absolutely. It is all about mindset. And that's, as I said, you can't change those physical attributes. And I hope that that guy has swallowed his words now. And so you know, Formula One, it's such an incredible, such a fascinating sport, and so many sorts of variables around that, you know, travelling all the time, the politics. And I do want to ask you about females on the motorsport side as well. But before we get into that, do you have any success habits that you might like to share with us that you've, you know, found really helpful?  While you're on this crazy circuit travelling circuit.


Rosanna Tennant  18:21  


I am quite strict on myself, I'm probably quite strict on others as well, which is sort of a good and a bad thing. I think I like high standards. And I believe we're only here for a short time. So as I said before, show up, give your best, do your absolute best, no one can ever judge you for that. But I do want to do my best at all times. So I live quite a strict life. And I think also the Formula One industry as you say it's so fast paced, we are in the same face for a very short period of time and so simple things like I write a to do list most days, which I'm sure a lot of people do, but it's really important and even during lockdown, you know, sometimes I wake up and think success. I've made it through the night. And you know, I always make my bed every morning. That's like the first win of the day. And also it just feels like then you're ready to kind of go so as long as your bedroom is tidy. And same with my desk, you know, I like to have it nice and tidy when I go to bed at night so that in the morning, I'm ready to drive my desk as it were. And when it comes to travelling, I'm terrible to arrive at a hotel with, because everyone checks in and they’re like cool meet down the bar in five minutes. Oh, can I have a little bit longer. And it's not because I want to sort of do my hair or put my makeup on or anything. It's because I want to unpack completely. Because when you're in some hotel or a place for four days, and you're living quite a full on life in terms of being at the track and we'll leave for the track sometimes six o'clock in the morning and we may get back into about eight at night, I can't operate if my room looks like the suitcase has exploded all over it. So I like to hang everything up, I like to unpack all of my wash bags around the bathroom, not just everywhere, but like neatly ordered. Having to keep a diary every day by my bed. And as long as it's all kind of set like that, it also means I can just like switch into being at home as if it was in a hotel, which, when you're away for as many days as we are in Formula One, that's really important to feel at home straightaway. So that's really key to me, sort of succeeding and being good. And then I think success habits as well, I do realise and I think I've realised throughout lockdown that I definitely need to exercise some form of fitness every day. And sometimes when I'm tired, I can put off exercising in the morning, because I know I like my sleep more, but I feel much better to get up, do my exercise, and then do my day. I think if I put it off, inevitably it sort of falls off the edge. And it's something that gets put aside and not done. So it's sort of realised that actually I need to be working out in the morning, which again, it's really difficult when we're on the road because when we're on the road, we're leaving so early when my alarm will go off at like three in the morning. So yes, it's actually kind of scaring me a little bit the thought of going back out there as we were on the road and trying to keep my routine going. So yeah, I think routine is really important. I'm sure a lot of people find that that helps them kind of structure their day, you know, we're no longer at school where you're told you've got three classes before break and two classes before lunch, and then you'll go and practice some sport or do something in the afternoon, we're not kind of given that schedule and that timetable anymore, so it's quite important that it's there so I need to instil it in my life


Farah Nanji  22:03  


That is very true, routine is so key to achieving and laying the foundations for success to manifest throughout your day. And I resonate with a lot of what you said particularly if I travel a lot and I do a lot of the same in terms of just making sure it's all just ready to go and you probably spend more time unpacking and you know, but then it all pays off in the end. But I also read that you’ve walk something crazy like 600 kilometres in lockdown.


Rosanna Tennant  22:29  


Yeah, I do love walking. I think also just on the unpacking side of things. I think efficiency is so important because it's lovely we have lots of lovely hours in a day but you know thinking it's Wednesday and then sometimes it's the weekend and a whole week has gone by so I think being efficient, you know actually simple things like always putting your keys down in the same place or I don't know put your headphones somewhere so that you know automatically right there that's where I left my keys instead of spending half an hour running around your your flat or your house trying to find your keys so it's a simple things like that but it sounds really OCD but it's actually just useful because it saves you time which means you can do some other activity instead which you know could be a fun one. Especially you know for me it was all about cutting/shaving those nanoseconds off.


Farah Nanji  23:28  


It would be hard not to get in that almost obsessive mindset around you. But also just what you said about travelling and then making time for fitness, that is quite a difficult one and I would have thought that because the nature of your job ,like obviously when you go to a track there's so much walking and you are going to get those steps in anyway like throughout you know your time there


Rosanna Tennant  23:54  


I am, I tend to wear a Fitbit. I’ve actually taken it off this week because I was becoming quite obsessed with it. But you know, you can get so into how many hours I slept, how many calories I burned, but yes, when I wear a Fitbit at the track, someone's worried it's gonna just kind of combust on my wrist. I walk and sometimes run when there's back to back interviews in different places and locations around the track a fair way every weekend, which is lovely and I have to say I think being outside as part of my job is just so wonderful and I'm so lucky and I definitely take it for granted because I think I'm in that work mindset and like I'm at work but I say forget that. Oh my gosh I'm in a wonderful country potentially walking around nice areas and up and down the pit lane or up and down the paddock. Yeah, and you don't realise you're getting your steps in but I do love walking. When you mentioned my lockdown, walking has taken on a new reality, um it's been something that I really enjoyed. I've actually come down to stay with my parents and I came down on the day that we went into lockdown. And it was really important for me to have little things that I did during the day on my own. I was at my work, but I am, you know, go for maybe a run, or a walk. And we're very lucky, we're in the beautiful countryside. So it's been time to think, to get my head straight for a day of work or to sort of, on, on do all of the work from the day that we just had to go through it and slightly kind of process it. I've listened to wonderful podcasts, I have listened to new music, old music, I've chatted with friends while I'm walking along to family, you know, my brother's not here. So I rang him and chatted to him. And it has just been a wonderful time. And also we've been so lucky with the weather. It's like almost just so unlike England to be so beautiful and funny. And so to make the most of being outside and also during spring which is I don't really get to see spring in the UK anymore because I'm away during the April me time. And so I sort of come back into the UK and like the leaves have changed a little bit and maybe they're about to come out and then I come back and I've already come out and there's you do you do miss that when you're away. I know that sounds awful, cuz I'm very lucky to travel. But yeah, the simple things like spring arriving in England, that's something I've really missed over the last few years. So actually to have that has been a real treat. So yeah, being able to get outside and walk I don't take that for granted at all. So I've been making the most of it.


Farah Nanji  26:27  

Like the ability to go for a walk with your family and stuff that's like such precious time to you and you're doing what you do, which is even more rare. And so what type of music do you listen to out of interest? 


Rosanna Tennant  26:43  


All sorts I've got, I have Spotify, which I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing. But I quite like their release reader. So I often kind of fire that up and listen to a few of those and then choose which ones I like. And what do I like at the moment I can tell you should I have a look? I really like circles by post malone at the moment. I seem to be listening to that over and over again. And it's funny actually a lot of music on my phone and I listened to it, I'd be like, Oh my gosh, that really takes me back to such and such a race or such and such a weekend away at a track. And it's funny how they can be like, God, I remember like so well, that was at Hungary last year, or Oh my god. I remember when it was raining in Germany. I listened to that. But it's interesting how certain tracks really remind me of certain places that I've been to which I'm sure as a DJ you have as well. It's kind of so it's so important. It's like my soundtrack. 


Farah Nanji  27:52  


Yeah, yeah. I think it's great in the sense of like, new discovery, and like the algorithm really helps that I personally use a lot of that. But the only annoying thing about Spotify, just from an artist perspective is just how little gets back to the artist. And that's quite sad. But yeah, absolutely. These tracks, they take you back to a moment in time or you know, they just become like a soundtrack of your life and it is really important. And another quick question, when you talked about walking in the Fitbit, is there an average say on like, how many steps to take in a track?


Rosanna Tennant  28:26  


At a track? I probably take on a Sunday, Saturday as well, actually, probably all days. I'm definitely over the 10,000 mark with like, no trouble where I think the most I've ever done was a Monaco back in 2016, something like that. I think I was over into like 22,000 steps. 23,000 steps one day? Yeah, it's a good place to get your steps.


Farah Nanji  28:54  


Cool. And Okay, nice one. So and actually another question I want to ask you, you talked about interviews and, you know, getting into the mindset too. Is that quite like, is that a natural process for you? I mean, like, you know, how does it work? Do you kind of know what you're going to ask somebody? Or is it you just kind of capture the moment in the story. And you know, you bump into a driver? And you just ask them a question.


Rosanna Tennant  29:17  


I think it helps to be across what's obviously going on in whatever field you work in whichever industry. And I will say that it's important to obviously have a bit of knowledge about what you're going to be talking about, and also to have prepared. So yes, you might be grabbing in the nicest sense of the word, a driver as I see them in the paddock. But even though it's just a spontaneous interview, because, you know, we're all across what's going on in the media, as far as when one goes as far as motorsport in the automotive workers. It's quite easy then to think, Oh, it's cool. I'll talk to him about that because that team was having that problem yesterday, or it's really hot today. So maybe that would be a good question to ask them. Have a call or handle on the tires or, you know, just, if you're kind of across what's going on, especially over the course of a race weekend, it's quite easy then for spontaneous interviews to sort of just pull out the themes of the weekend and protect potentially ask that particular driver. Those questions when it comes to a more thought out, and what we'd like to call a sit down interview with the drivers or team personnel. Always do a lot of investigations in terms of what they've been saying recently, maybe check on their social media, check any news articles that have come out about them. And then it's really tricky, because you don't want to just completely copy what's gone before, you don't want to just go into a complete copy of an interview that you've read, because that doesn't offer anything to fans. So it's then time to kind of take it on a step. And that can be quite tough, because you're like, oh, gosh, it just feels like I'm reinventing the wheel. What am I going to do? How can I make my interview better and different? So that's quite a bit of pressure. And equally, you don't want to sort of rehearse it so much in your mind that you think right? I'll ask him that question, then he'll definitely answer that. So then that will take us on to this because, you know, so human being that you're interviewing, so they're not necessarily going to give you the exact answer that you thought would be your format of your interview. And so for that, that same back to the whole preparation thing, because, you know, I can put examples on your record, you can't ever go into an interview with him and think cool, I'll ask him question one, and then he'll give me the perfect answer. And I'll go straight on to question two, because that's a perfect segue. Brilliant. He'll go sort of like, Asked Question one. And then he'll jump to a subject that you may have had up to see for like, question 10, or something. So that's when preparation and knowledge is quite important, because you can then like, just jump to that and Dart back to that and know exactly kind of what he's referring to, and then use or put on bits of your interview plan, as it were, or thoughts about what topics you'd like to talk to him about as you go along. But you don't want to stay sort of strict and rigid to your plan. Otherwise you can lose the sort of the dynamic element to the interior, I always say to people, listen, because there's nothing worse than sticking to your 10 questions and missing something really important that they say back to you on the answer for question one. So it's really important to just kind of go with where they're sort of taking it, obviously controlling your interview, but knowing that you've listened to them, and hopefully then that will give it a nice flow. Sounds very scientific when you put it like that? It’s not really that well planned.


Farah Nanji  32:27  


But then here's one for you like, what about people like Kimmy, who are just notorious for not wanting to engage so much in the media? How do you overcome that? And have you had to interview him? Like, how's it kind of been?


Rosanna Tennant  32:38  


Yeah, I have interviewed him, he's wonderful. Goodness, me. He's such a fan favourite, which I find amazing. I don't, I'm not shocked by it. Because I think people love that sort of character, the ones that, you know, give very little, but when they do, it's so much more precious than anyone else. So yeah, it's always been fun interviewing him. And it's a privileged interview, all the drivers have to say that he makes you work for it. And there are other drivers without the sort of Kimmy characteristics that you want for it too. But he, I kind of go maybe more for like a little shock approach with him. Because if you just go straight to the point with him, he would just be very straightforward. So yes, sometimes I kind of, I probably seem like an idiot to him coming up with random questions. But sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And that's the thing, I guess, when they, when they don't kind of play along, you can't get disheartened or sad about it, or think you've done a really bad job. As long as you've prepared and asked them a sensible question, then, you know, whatever they come back with usually makes a headline with Kimmy so you just have to be a bit careful about that.


Farah Nanji 33:44  


Absolutely. And so what's been your experience of like, you know, females in Formula One. I know we both met through Dare To Be Different, which, and for anybody who's not familiar with that, it's a really interesting initiative by Susie Wolff to kind of inspire more girls to get into motorsport. And Rosanna and I have both been volunteering in different aspects of the organisation and like, helping sort of expose some of these hidden career paths, let's say that haven't traditionally been so and so much spotlight hasn't been put on. So yeah. And what is your sort of view on the whole thing?


Rosanna Tennant  34:24  


Well, it's definitely changed. I first set foot in the F1, paddock in 2013. And it's definitely changed since then. There are a lot of women in the sport. People might say that they're very traditional women roles. A lot of them work in more of the PR side of things, pressing communications, hospitality side of things. There are strategists, there are mechanics, there are engineers, and that's something I've definitely seen change over the years. So you see more women on the pit wall now making decisions out there. And I think obviously that is absolutely as it should be. Be the best people for the job. And as I said before, you know, whether that's a man or woman doesn't matter who, anyone who's gonna show up and give their best as welcome. The dare to be different initiative, I'm very honoured to be an ambassador for that I love the phrase, dare to be different, because I think that doesn't just affect girls and women, it can affect anybody. And that's what's so important about an initiative like that, just as you say, kind of opening up the possibilities in the motorsport industry in the automotive industry. I think a lot of people just think, Oh, you've got to be a driver, or you've got to be a mechanic, we've got to be an engineer, and there are so many other roles within a team and within the industry. So it's really important that those are kind of brought to the forefront. So people know, potentially they could get involved. It's not a closed door. And as I say, it doesn't matter if you're, if you're a woman, that's great. And if you're not, there's still, there's still opportunity for you as well. So I love being involved in Dare To Be Different. And I think, I think we're doing a better job, I think it's difficult isn't it, you're, you're chasing equality, the whole time. But I feel in a way, what we're actually just chasing is the best and the best, it doesn't really matter what quota that is, as long as you've got the best people for the job. And as long as, as many people were able to apply for that job from different corners of the earth, then that is great. But as long as the decision at the end, is that the best person got the job after the process, then that for me is all that matters.


Farah Nanji 36:30  


But do you feel like you know, people who work in F1 have not got there by not being the best at what they do. But what about on the driver side, because, you know, men will have progressed a lot farther, because it's just historically been, you know, more of an open sort of playing field for them. And so by the time females kind of get up to that, that speed, I mean, you know, the men are just accelerated even further. So there's like a disparity gap between how much the best can get to it. I mean, do you see yourself on the inside? And we know that you know, yeah, people like Tatiana, and like others that are getting those developmental roles. Do you really think that in the next five years, 10 years, someone's going to take the plunge and just put them in a good team, and that they'll be equal to that counterpart?


Rosanna Tennant  37:20  


I think that well, on a behavioural side there will be equal there will always be considered equal to their male counterpart in the garage. And the problem we have is it's a physicality issue. There are certain ways that women or men are made differently from a physical point of view. And having spoken to Tatiana, you know, she says she has to work harder to put on muscle mass, because she is a woman. And genetically that is something who knows I can't change being six foot two, she can't change what muscle fibres she was given as a woman. So it's, there's that element. So there's a physical side that we've got to work our way around as women and as trainers to try and get the best out of their athletes. That is something that is going to always be there. Obviously, the ways that we train our better so potentially there is a way for women to get stronger and stronger and stronger. And of course, there are many women who have fought for men in various sports and athleticism. As far as taking the plunge, I think teams are getting that as you are seeing Tatiana Calderon with her development role. I think we've seen Susie Wolff in the past, obviously, who set up Dare To Be Different. Jamie Chadwick is doing a fabulous job. And obviously one of the W series. Will we see her in a Williams, Jr. Driver role? Will we see her potentially take part in some practice sessions in the coming years, I really hope so. My biggest fear and this is in any role, not just as a driver is those women don't want to be put into a car just because we say that there should be more women driving on the grid or 14 women driver drivers on the grid. They don't want to be there for that, they want to be there because they've beaten the other people that were contesting that seat. They want to be there for that reason. And as long as that's what happens, then that is fine. As you know, the biggest problem is making sure that everyone who wants to be considered for that seat is considered. And that's not really the final decision. That's important when it's more the fact that enough people are able to be taken into consideration to make that decision. I think that's where we've got to really invest the time and the money and the resource to make sure that people have access to being considered.


Farah Nanji  39:41  


Yeah, absolutely. And that kind of leads me on quite nicely to the next question, because then obviously even though it's been locked down, there's been quite a few things happening in the Formula One World from you know, Carlos going to Ferrari to this whole stuff about Williams and some of the business potential being up for sale. There's been quite outspoken around this, how people haven't sort of been vocal about the things happening in America right now. And Black Lives Matter. So basically what I wanted to ask you is, you know, do you if this stuff changes at Williams, which has been quite a team that's been very for women, and there's been a fight with Claire Williams. And I think she's been quite motivated or, you know, hungry to employ women. And she chose got Susie into that role. And, Jamie, as you say, so do you think some of that might change if a Williams ownership changes and just general perspectives on your thoughts about you know, Carlos Sainz, Ferrari and Lewis, talking about people not being so vocal around the political political side of things in the world?


Rosanna Tennant  40:47  


Yeah, for a lockdown and a shutdown. I think there's been plenty to talk about, I don't think we've been hungry for content. And we've been very lucky. I think the esports side of things have given loads of news stories of Charles’s girlfriend and Nico Rosberg, his wife in the background and lots of little windows into the worlds of these drivers in their private lives, which I think is amazing when you think that Charles is Ferrari's number one driver, we're seeing a side to him that we would never have seen back in the day. Of course, that's technology allowing that to happen. But how wonderful for fans to know, you know more about their favourite driver and their future sort of heroes, I feel he will become of the sport. And so I think it's been an interesting, interesting few weeks. Obviously, the atrocities that are happening in America are horrific. And it's really interesting to see how the industry has responded. I think, obviously, calling out the fact that there has been quite a lot of silence was a huge moment for the sport. And I think a lot of the drivers have responded. And I think a lot of their messages were ones showing that they weren't sure how to use their voice. And I think a lot of people have slammed them for that sometimes. And other people have really appreciated that honesty. And I think, you know, it is really difficult in this industry with social media, you can put words to your post, and they can be meant in such a positive way. And then they can be used against you or they can be seen in a negative tone that you never ever intended them to have. So I think it's been great that nurses raised it. It's a shame that obviously is something that still needs to be raised. And obviously, in the bigger, bigger picture of what's going on in America, outside the f1 world. That just isn't forgivable, but that is still going on in 2020, which never went away but the fact that it's still going on now, and there's been so much so many conversations about it. And I just feel that. I mean, yeah, it's back into the little small microcosm of Formula One - Charles being partnered with Carlos Sainz is going to be wonderful. I think what an opportunity for Carlos Sainz. He has been to very many teams on this grid now. He sampled quite a few. So it'd be really interesting to see how he gets on. I think it'll also be interesting just to see how this year plays out. We've seen great work from McLaren, working with Zak Brown and the team there to really turn the team around. And they're definitely on the ascendance with Lando and Carlos. And that's been a wonderful dynamic to watch with those two guys. Daniel Ricardo going into McLaren, I think is a good move from him. I'm a little bit disappointed that the Renault relationship didn't come to any sort of fruition. And I feel like that was a bit of a damp squib. I mean, everyone feels that I think. And, and yeah, we'll just wait and see how it all plays out. But it's a weird one, because, because we're getting announcements now. I sort of feel like when we go racing in Australia, the beginning of July, I'm going to expect to see Daniel and McLaren and Carlos and Ferrari close, because I sort of feel like these are the announcements that we would get towards the end of a season or a winter break. So I'm kind of Yeah, I've got to remember that No, no, we still got to go through the season, as well as with Sebastian and Charles at Ferrari, and that's going to be exciting, of course, and working out where Sebastian will head. That's still a piece of the puzzle to be found. So yeah, it's been, it's been an amazing few months. I mean, terrible that we're in the situation from a world pandemic side of things, but I think there have been some positives, there have been some little moments of happiness and lots of laughs That Formula One has created the drivers have created and hopefully, when we all go racing again, I think these drivers are going to appreciate what they do a little bit more, I think perhaps we wring them out a little with all of our interviews at track and during preseason testing and asking them constantly, how do they feel? How does the car feel? There's been interesting interviewing them over this time, they all seem fresher. They feel like it feels like their brains have more kind of capacity to. They're all highly intelligent, but it feels like they're fresher. There's like a renewed vigour. And their answers are so much more chatty and relaxed, and it's been really nice talking to them, will be via zoom. And so I hope from a few chats with them saying that, you know, this time has really made them think that Firstly, they may have a bit more time to add on to their career now, this little this break may have afforded them more of a career afterwards. And also, I think that they'll go into really enjoying it and not, you know, begrudging, some of the travel or the interviews or the things that go with being formal on driving it. So hopefully we'll see a happier paddock, I hope, definitely a cleaner paddock potentially.


Farah Nanji  46:01  

Really interesting, and can you share any predictions on this missing piece of the puzzle puzzle around battle? Do you think he's gonna retire? Or do you think he's gonna go to another team?


Rosanna Tennant  46:12  


I don't know. There are so many mutterings, and probably by the time this podcast goes out, he’d have said where he's going, um, I don't know, I sort of feel like is it a time to bow out? There are a few options that aren't there, but I would be too sad to sort of have a bit of a well, he's very successful at Ferrari. Of course, the championships. Don't say that. But he had some good wins with them. But it'll be a bit of a shame to sort of having had the success that sort of goes Ferrari not really do what you set out to achieve and then go somewhere else that didn't deliver a championship for one or two years. And then really, he's at the end of his career. Is it better to say, ciao to the red team and maybe go into a management role or something along those lines? I don't know. I know, he's a you know, he's a popular driver. A very, very clever driver, very analytical driver. So we will, I'm, I'm intrigued, but I don't know. I feel like the Mercedes team have a good thing going on with Lewis and Valtteri. So to bring him in there would be upsetting the balance that they've created over the last few years, but equally would make sense from a commercial point of view for Germans to be driving for a German team. Then there's the Aston Martin potential, could that be a good place for him to go and to sort of build the new team as it will be? A little bit around him? So many options? He's a lucky guy. And equally, I don't think retiring with four championships, your name is a bad place to cheer.


Farah Nanji  47:45  


Yeah, no, definitely no options. And I guess it has to be done in a way that really fulfils him as well, you know? And but also, yeah, so just a quick one on your thoughts about the whole Williams thing? Yeah. What do you think about that?


Rosanna Tennant  48:00  


Yeah, it's, it's sad, isn't it when you see a team struggling, and I think when people watch the Netflix episode, mainly focusing around Williams, it was heartbreaking when you see some of the teams that have a much more luxurious feel to them. And you see that, you know, it's, it's really kind of building pieces in the 11th hour and getting them to the track. And it was heartbreaking to watch, I think Claire Williams was very honest, she's always been very honest, and her interviews about the situation with the team and how much they're trying, but it seems a little like pushing water up a hill for them at the moment, and I think this is probably a sensible route to go down, I don't think they would have gone down it if they didn't see it as the best option. It'll be interesting to see who comes in and buys the team, or sheriff, the team. And as you say, it might impact the driver choices, it may, unfortunately, disadvantage some of the junior drivers who had been signed up. But you know, these things hopefully, will resolve themselves and it'll be in Williams's advantage to get them sorted sooner rather than later. And hopefully, they'll come out fighting and hopefully fighting for a new start with maybe in the midfield, that would be great, wouldn't it to see them, you know, battling it out with people rather than languishing at the back. So I just hope it's all for the best. And that will keep 10 to 10 teams on the grid. And 10 strong teams at that.


Farah Nanji  49:25  


Well, you just got to wonder, yeah, the virus thing hadn't happened, you know, and it was kind of it was really exciting thinking about the budget changes that were happening. And that made me that might have helped them to like, you know, just get a bit more equal. But yeah, I do hope that women will still stay at the heart of their mission as well. And you talk about the Netflix thing. What do you think about it? Did you like Season Two? Did you find that to be different? Is it really accurate in what's going on? 


Rosanna Tennant  49:55  


I watched Season Two too quickly. I think it was one of those things that I was desperate to watch, by the time I got to Melbourne so it's kind of like next episode, next episode to watch it again and go through it slowly and kind of process it. I think it's a good representation. And say the word it's a true representation of what goes on. I think the likes of Gunther Steiner have kind of really shown it for exactly what it is. I'm sure other team bosses are just like him, but don't necessarily show it on the Netflix documentary. As a whole, as a documentary as a whole season one and season two. I think it's been amazing. Opening the sport up to people who don't watch the races on a Sunday afternoon. I've had lots of lovely friends messaging. So I've really got into the Drive To Survive and really enjoying it. And people who I didn't think would enjoy it. And very naively and it's probably why I wasn't asked to direct or produce the series. And I wouldn't have sold. You know, if someone says to me, why do you love? Why should I love Formula One, really superficially for me, I'd probably say Oh, it goes, it's a wonderful country's really glamorous locations, the cars are really fast, really amazing. hospitality, you know, try and sell it in a kind of hedonistic way. Whereas, of course, this series has really approached it from the business angle and the goings on behind closed doors at the headquarters of these factories and teams, and showing how they operate as a proper business. I think that's actually what's captivating people. And that's why people found it interesting, because, you know, it's not just about where the Lewis Hamilton battler is heading this year, it's about the lower teams on the grid, where they How are they struggling? How are they surviving? Which driver won't make it but he's had really good results. He didn't get to see this is outrageous. Those are the sort of messages I'm getting from friends, like I can't believe he's been let down by the team. And so I think people really latched on to the characters that were shown in Netflix, series one. And I think, yeah, the second series was just a great continuation of that. And I think it's great just to have a bit of a behind the scenes look at the sport. And if it can bring more fans to watch on a Sunday afternoon, then I'm all for it.


Farah Nanji  52:07  


Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, last couple of questions. And as a journalist, any technical communication in crisis, from your side,


Rosanna Tennant  52:17  


Run for the hills?


Farah Nanji  52:21  


I mean, a more like, you know, obviously, we're in this crisis mood as a world and just Yeah, like, from a journalist point of view, you know, like, what would what what do you think companies or people when they like, you know, kind of try to still get on with business and the world needs to be mindful of now that we're just sort of in this crazy, undefined period of time.


Rosanna Tennant  52:43  


I think it's been the undefined element has been something that I've definitely struggled with on a personal like day to day level. I live and die by my little diary, I have some two days, my diary day to day and my bigger diary that I used to write about what I did. And it was almost like, I should have just burned them both because there was nothing planned, everything was cancelled. And, yeah, I might as well have just taken a match to them. And the, the not knowing when it was going to end was quite tricky, is quite tricky, you know, when it's really all going to be open, and everything is back to the new normal, or, hopefully a little bit like the old normal. And I think companies are going to have to adapt massively around their employees, you know, some employees won't be comfortable going to their offices, even if they can give them all the health and safety requirements that are necessary laid out by the government. People might not want to risk their health and their family's health, how does the company operate around that, even though they've put in all the right things. And I think working from home element is going to become so much more of how we operate, I definitely have found it back to that efficiency thing, and much more efficient way of operating, it means I can, you know, get good sleep every night, I can exercise in the morning, I can be at my desk, and I need to be ready to go and I haven't commuted and I haven't contributed to pollution, I haven't had to be on a bus or a tube. It's a much more efficient way of doing things. And I'm even, you know, editing with editors remotely, I'm using screen share to go through edits on a timeline, that's amazing, I can do that. When I'm away around the world. If I end up going travelling again, then that's really amazing. That's really an efficient way of operating. So I think companies are gonna have to be really, you know, careful and kind of their employees, but also really flexible. And I think in the old days, there was that classic like, Oh, so and so's working from home and sort of raised the eyebrows and like wants a sunny day. Mm hmm. You know, thinking that potentially because the sun was shining. So as they said they're going to work from home because actually they're going to lie in their garden or go to the park. And I think now it's become so that it is the norm working from home. We're all getting on with our jobs. The jobs are still being done if you're still in full time employment. So I think it's taken away that sort of working from home he feeling so I hope that more employers will, you know, incorporate it into their weekly structure, perhaps one two days working from home. And if that can help the environment as well, which we've seen it has, then that's even better. And I just think, yeah, taking away some of the stresses of having to be somewhere all the time. Just constantly on the go, I just think it's this downtime that has been really good. But I do think in the creative industries, companies, one thing we have found quite difficult is coming up with new creative ideas on your own sitting at your laptop tend to kitchen table can be quite difficult when you haven't got someone just to, to chat something through at work, you forget how you might go into work, you've got something to work on in the morning and get to 11 o'clock, and you just can't work out how to put something together or align in a press release. And you get up or make a coffee and you happen to see a colleague there with you and you go really struggling with I can't, I can't work it out. What do you think? And they go, Well, why don't you change this for this and you go, Oh, my God, that's amazing. Thanks so much, go back to a desk, and you complete your task for the morning, whatever it was. And I think those are the encounters those creative moments are probably the things that we've all missed the most, I would say just that sort of. Yeah, group thinking and being face to face with people. But I think there's definitely a middle ground we can find with a bit of working from home, but of going into the office. And yeah, technology has been a tough word. Pretty amazing. I have to say the way we will be able to link up around the world. It's been, it's been a an amazing, sort of two, three months of learning and being very flexible, getting things done


Farah Nanji  56:40  


Lastly, talking about what's going on. So just you know, your lockdown experience, I know you're in Australia, with f1, when everything starts to happen, I also know that one of the sacrifices you've had to make, and you know, to be able to do Formula One in this manner is being just the personal sacrifices, and from not seeing friends. And you know, I remember you telling me not to do weddings and stuff. This time, you might like to just catch up with a bit of that. 


Rosanna Tennant  57:11  


It's funny when I went into lockdown, um, I actually, because I keep a diary every day, I had a little look back. And it's amazing how many times I've written things like, I wish I could spend a bit more time at home, I really wish I'd got into a routine or you know, just little things that you just kind of throw out there. But it's all little wishes that suddenly have come true, which is awful, because no one wanted it to be through a global pandemic. That is not what I was asking for. But yes, being away so much, you don't get that routine, you don't get to see family and friends, you don't really have much control, even on simple things like you know, I don't, I can't cook for myself, and I'm away. So that means I'm having to eat what someone else has prepared and potentially not very good for me or whatever it might be. And so you kind of have to take that control back has been amazing for the last few months. And I feel like I've really kind of got myself in order. And yeah, I think my fear is now coming out of lockdown. Is that sort of oh my gosh, have I made the most of lockdown. I've read enough books. I've listened to enough podcasts. I've made enough banana bread. Have I tried enough new recipes? Oh, my goodness, you know how they competed all those boxsets on Netflix that everyone's been recommending. And now I'm sort of panicky like Did I make the most of lockdown? So yeah, it's been, I think at the beginning, I was quite strict with my routine. And I like writing my little to do lists. And slowly I've been trying to be like, no, it's fine. We'll get that done. There's time. There's time. And I think it's just seeing there's so much time in a day, which sometimes you can forget when you're busy. I don't have time for that. I don't have time for that. But actually, if you just slow everything down. There is definitely a time for that. And it probably helps that we're not going out for dinner every night seeing friends and staying up too late. But yeah, it's been a really good time just to sort of, I probably wasn't ready for the season. Maybe I needed a bit of extra time, you know,


Farah Nanji  59:00  

Fair enough. And what was the experience like in Australia when it was also going on? Because it was quite crazy. And yeah, it's just it was mad to watch from afar.


Rosanna Tennant  59:10  


Yeah, it was a huge moment. I think a lot of people. We didn't really know what was going on. I think that was quite confusing. And we'd all got there. And I think we're all so excited to go racing. And it was that back to school feeling which we always talk about with Melbourne. And there was a lot of the elbow. Hello, gentlemen, hello, how are you touching elbows and we look back and you think God, I've been crazy. But we all were doing what we were talking about was how we were meant to say hello. But um, it was a weird time. And I think also we're all just hoping it wasn't true. You know, we're hoping Formula One will continue because Formula One will continue and nothing will stop F1. And I think suddenly when it was cancelled, we're just like, oh my goodness, this is big like this is bigger than we thought. And probably foolishly I probably didn't think it would come to that. And yeah, so we've got out there. I had a lovely few days before the race weekend kicked in, which I'm very glad about. I made the most of the amazing Melbourne brunch theme and cafe culture. And then yeah, get into the track catching up with everyone and then yeah, being cancelled on that Friday. Oh, my goodness, it was so weird. And we're all walking through the paddock trying to work out what was going on, because we've been told to go. And then it was obviously cancelled. So it's all sort of people so whispering about what have you heard? or what have you heard? And everyone was scrolling through Twitter and Instagram trying to see if any, a team that updated anything or you know, they've been anything for one and yeah, it was an uncertain time. And I think we were so early on in the crisis. I knew there had been terrible deaths already and terrible. Illness around the world already, but I think it was we were early on, if you know what I mean. I don't think people realise obviously, what was to come. And so yeah, it was a strange time. Very confusing time. But I'm glad we all got back safely in the end. And so some of the teams have to stay out for a long time to be quarantined. But yeah, we've all made it back. And hopefully, the majority of that paddock will be racing again in Australia in less than a month. It's crazy to think it's been so long and yet no, it seems so close. 


Farah Nanji  1:01:21  


It’s definitely passed by quite fast despite being quite far away. And so hopefully, you know, when things are back to normal, and I know this year, this season is going to be quite different in terms of circuits and the ability for people to even come down and watch it. The next year. Hopefully, if you know, we're all back to how it was in terms of circuits, what's one of your favourite ones to, to, to go to and to report them?


Rosanna Tennant  1:01:45  


Well, my favourite one is Melbourne. And that's probably for personal reasons cuz I lived out there for a year when I was younger. I just love the way that it's in the city. I love them sort of that back school feeling the paddock is glorious. It's very grassy and lovely trees. And it's a really nice close paddock question. How do you think of being close to people and you think, gosh, what a silly thing to want to wish for. We should all be separate and not spread any diseases. But of course, actually, you just want to be with everyone. So it's a wonderful paddock. In that respect. I like the track, great Ozzy fans, and you can walk in and out of the city and it's a really good, good place to go racing doesn't necessarily always bring the best races. But I really like going there because it kind of makes me think Oh, here we go. And of course, we were slightly. That was taken away from everyone this year. So it'd be nice to go back there next year. I really hope it's on the calendar.


Farah Nanji  1:02:39  


Very good. Yeah. Hope to see you. And are you a good driver?


Rosanna Tennant  1:02:44  


Oh, I'm Excellent. Excellent. I'm considering putting myself forward for some of these seats that are available for the 2021 season. I do love driving, I've always made sure that I'm in a position to have a car. So it's one of my priorities because it's very helpful for me with work. I need to be able to drive around and I enjoy it. I come from a family of people who love cars. And one of my uncle's loves rallying, my dad loves cars so much so that he puts his window down when we're at a junction to hear a car pull away gets very excited about the sounds. And as I said, my brother, my brother has worked in Formula One and still works in Formula One. So I come from a family that love cars. I like driving. I had a few driver days here and there. Over a few few years I've been in industry, and I'm just probably, I don't mind doing a track day, but I just know that I've not got it in me to put it to the edge like the drivers do. And swing it around a corner like that. I just Yeah, I'd be a bit I think I'd be scared of the crashes. So probably prevent me from giving my all when it came to racing. I probably be like, No, you go please. You have the first time you lead into that. That's that's totally okay. 


Farah Nanji  1:04:13  


Rosanna thank you so much for your time and good luck with getting back to F1. We'll be watching with great excitement and hopefully we'll talk to you soon.


Rosanna Tennant  1:04:22  


Thank you so much it’s been great fun.


Farah Nanji  1:04:25  


What a great chat, Rosanna’s journey in F1 has been a fascinating one and her experiences really reflect that. It was super interesting hearing about the challenges she faced particularly with things like her height that naturally are not in her control. Since the time of this recording, F1 has thankfully returned to our screens and it's been one of the things that's kept me going during the lockdown. The Williams team has now been of course sold. So we are really interested to see the direction they take and if they can bring the Williams name back to victory, and also whether they continue to integrate females into their mission as levelling the playing field or something Claire Williams was particularly passionate about an F one is undergoing a huge organisational shift at the moment. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to listen to this episode. I hope you're leaving with some great inspiration that can help you with whatever you want to achieve in your life. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe to your favourite podcast platform so you can be notified when a new episode is posted. It would also mean the world to us if you could rate and review the show and share it with your friends so we can reach as many people as possible. If you want to reach out to me as well you can get in touch directly at dj.n1nja on Instagram and Twitter. That's dj.n1nja and also at Mission Makers on social media. Thanks so much again for listening. Until next time, Mission Makers stay safe and have an amazing week.


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