Farah Nanji 0:00
Hey, I hope you're having a great day. Wherever you're listening to this podcast. It's been a while since we've done a solo bonus episode. If you've been listening to the podcast, you may have seen that we've been moderating and producing podcasts at Davos, Amsterdam Dance Event and IMS in Ibiza, which those episodes are dropping in a couple of weeks with Danny Howard from BBC Radio One and Marshall Jefferson. But if you've been following me personally, as a DJ, you may have seen that, in the spring of this year, I released the first wave of my musical records. And this was a huge milestone in my career, as you'll hear a lot of the a lot of it is really around the journey of what it has taken to get to this point. And just for context, I released on Mobilee and Sol Selectas, which are some of the biggest labels in on the underground electronic music scene. Mobilee was started in Berlin by Anja Schneider and Ralf Kollmann in 2005. And it's really become a hugely iconic label. And so selectors is a organic house labels started by DJ Sabo, and similarly has been one of the market leading labels for organic house. So it was a huge honour to be welcomed into that family into those families. And also, just as an as an artist, myself, I've been playing records from these labels pretty much since the inception of my career, in 2010, and a couple of weeks ago, I just signed all the rest of the tunes I have ready. And so I've got about five EPS coming out for the rest of this year. And so it feels also really liberating to be in a position where the music I'm making now in the studio is really coming out for next year. But of course, much easier said than done. And a lot of this has been 1000s and 1000s of hours in the making years of networking and relationship building, and also having the courage to say no, and walk away from certain things, which I'll touch upon in this episode. But yeah, I really wanted to just kind of record this episode today about how to help other producers who, you know, are in similar positions of, you know, sort of wondering how do they release on the labels that they love, and for anyone who's just interested in in that journey, really.
So I think it's important to kind of go back to the beginning, I had been DJing, you know, since 2010, and had been been quite lucky. Of course, there are a lot of hard work, but I was getting a lot of consistently really solid gigs. Around the world, I'd been playing in Pasha Bheatha Pasha destino, sorry and Ibiza privilege, I'd been playing in music festivals in Africa, but I wasn't seeing the next stage of my career really kind of kind of catapult. And looking back now, I really understand the importance in today's world that if you think about your favourite artists, or if you look at, you know, the most successful artists out there, most often they are not just DJs they have music productions, right. And I always say that, you have to create your own demand as an artist. And creating that demand really comes from three things being an amazing DJ, of course, being a great music producer and knowing how to market and one without the other, you might see performance gaps, you know, and potential is not being fulfilled. And of course, there are, you know, outliers and there are DJs out there who have made it without, without production. But in today's world, it is really hard to, to to kind of get to that point. And I guess it also depends what you want, as well. So you know, you could be a really successful wedding DJ, for example, and make loads of money without having to produce music, but in in the sense of like being, you know, an artist in, in the kind of, in the scenes that I'm in electronic music. Yeah, I think, you know, it's it's really non negotiable, actually. But what does it take to produce music, and if you guys are producers, you probably know just how much it takes. But some of the most important things is, of course, time, I think one of the most important things is not rushing, because the first couple of years is really around learning music production. It's like learning a different language, I always compare DJing and music production to knowing the difference between how to drive a manual car and automatic with automatic being like DJing and manual being like music production, because it's really like under the hood, you know, it's there's a lot lot more going on. And secondly, of course, is the the financial aspect and the the money that you have to invest in making music with no guarantee that it's going to pay off that you can measure that success, you know, financially so. So yeah, you know, being in that position to have time and money on your side is is difficult, of course. And in 2014 I'd reached that sort of point in my career where I wasn't seeing the next thing and I hadn't been producing. And I guess one of the first takeaway He's from this is relationships. Hopefully you'll see this as a common thread throughout my whole journey. But really, I believe it's so much more important to spend, as, as long as it takes to develop those relationships than it is to send out 1000 emails to your favourite labels. Maybe 1000 is a bit overkill, but you know what I mean? So, in the in those in in 2014, basically, I was at a music conference and other really good place to hang out and build relationships. And the panel reached a moment, you know, towards the end, right became the audience q&a. And they asked if anyone had questions, and there was that typically awkward moment in the room where people were either nervous or they didn't have questions. So I put my hand up, and I shared, you know, my vulnerability that you know, I been playing, but I wasn't really seeing this next turning point in my career. And it was the most life changing moment I in my production journey. At that point, obviously, my production God hadn't started yet. But the people in that room, saw something in me. And they took me to a corner afterwards. And they basically said, well, first of all, they answered the question, of course, on stage, and they really tried to hone in on the value of music production, and that if that wasn't there, then that triangle that I was talking about that that was the gap, right, that was missing. But yeah, they took me aside after the panel. And they, they asked me if I was be interested in having a meeting with their team. And so off, we went. A couple of weeks later, basically, it led to this guy called Francesco mammy taking me under his wings, and mentoring me basically, into in terms of learning the ropes of music production, he was a logic certified trainer, which is one of the production software's that music artists use. And at that moment, I wasn't in a position to financially invest in learning production. So it was a huge I'm so grateful to Frankie for being so kind and generous in that year. And basically, every other day, I was driving to his house, I was driving one hour to go see him and, and he was teaching me a lot. And then I was basically observing how he was producing for some of the biggest artists in the scene. And the first thing I'll say is, you know, when you're thinking about, obviously, releasing on labels, is not to rush that process. Because I really believe that first couple of years, it is really about learning the production techniques. And once you've started to develop and learn that, it really then comes down to developing a signature sound. Of course, you know, you can get super excited and you know, you want to like send out your music as soon as you start making things and you start understanding and Cracking the Codes of that software. But in a way, I think what's more valuable and strategic is not getting trapped of being on that hamster wheel. Because once you're on that wheel, there's so much you have to do outside of the production, that you want to be in a position where you can create on demand, you can go into studio and make great music all the time consistently. And when they will start asking you for more music, you're able to actually do that. So feels nice, obviously, you know, when you have that first couple of records to get validated and try and sort of send them out there. But if you can afford yourself you know that time have a really going using that time just for learning and really crafting that signature sound, really getting your processes down I think that is so valuable in the long term. And for me personally to two years later, I thought I was ready. I was about to I started writing an album, I thought this was going to be the right strategy. Quick point that don't just go out there and release an album you need to have EPS to build that momentum. But I just as I was about to kind of launch this album, I went through some really difficult things in the music industry and those things questioned my safety and I really hate to say it but being a woman in this industry, it's not easy. And you constantly have to be on guard and aware of your safety because you are travelling around the world. The industry can be very hedonistic, it's a playground, you know when you're performing and and a few things happen that really jolted me and basically questioned how I can achieve my purpose in this industry in my dreams without compromising that safety. And I had to take a step back, I had to delete my artistry. I literally thought I can't I can't do this. Like, if it comes at that cost. It's not worth it. So I deleted everything. I deleted all my social media. And yeah, working super hard to get back to my IG. Back to those numbers I used to have. So yeah, if you're not following me now on Instagram is DJ dot n one and J A shameless plug there. No, But jokes aside, when you strip everything back and you you literally take everything away and in a way I can compare this now obviously to COVID. But of course at that time, you know, it wasn't a global pandemic, but there was a sort of crisis happening in me and so I you know, when you strip that everything back and you have to have a blank canvas of creativity and there's no pressure. It's really magical, what can actually be created through those combines? And of course, you know, in those moments, it doesn't feel magical, it feels super difficult. You're being tested, you're wondering how on earth this is going to work? Are you going to succeed? How can you succeed, but what it gave me the most, and I really, really want to emphasise this, because especially in that in those few years, I was a full time artist. And it can be, of course, it's amazing, you know, amazing to be a full time artist. But for me, personally, having that much freedom with my time, like, it was almost too freeing, you know, and now I run two businesses. And I, because I'm super passionate about those businesses, but also,
those businesses allow me to not have a reliance on on money coming from music, which is also a really, really big thing, because I'm not having to take gigs just to make money I can invest back in my career and stuff. And I'm not saying that you should all go out and do that. But it is really important to also when you're leasing and producing music, to have money that you're gonna need to invest in, because it is super expensive to make music. I mean, there's always a new plugin out, there's it, it costs so much money to build a small studio in your house. It even even if you you know, build something small, I mean, even just a MIDI keyboard and some good speakers and a good operating system. Once you actually start releasing you, you know, it's a black hole of how much you have to pay to get your tracks mixed. And so yeah, it's really important to have that ability to, to invest and market as well, your music, but going back to discipline, I really took those years to become so organised, so disciplined, and so consistent in my habits. So one of the key things was apart from having Frankie as my mentor and, and also evolving to having more mentors as well, was finding communities. And so I signed up to a few different sort of communities, one of them was called finish more music, an amazing community, I learned so much, there was so many things that I was able to take from that it's an online kind, of course, in an online community. But really, a lot of that was around habits, right? So one of the things that I learned was like, having this kind of this journal every single time I make music writing, before I start writing, like really taking a moment to think like what what is it that I'm good about to create, like, what is it I want to create? What is what how do I feel in this moment? What am I grateful for, and then as you're kind of in that journey of producing, writing key things, waiting notes, and very importantly, writing a few things at the end of the session about what you should be working on for the next session. And that's actually quite important, because a lot of times you're sitting there and it can be, you know, 12 hour shift, it's like 3am, when you finish, and you know that that last couple of hours might just become, you know, a blur. So it's really important, actually, I would always kind of come back to the, to the, to the software and look back at those notes of what happened, you know, the day before or whatever. And another really important habit was like starting music everyday, just starting the day in a very in a moment where you're only creating the 20 minutes. So I'm a perfectionist. And part of like, why it took me so long to actually release was because I would just be spending way too much time. I mean, like you could open up you know, if you're, if you're again, if you're a producer, you'll know this, but you could open up your DAW, your software, and one plugin could have like 30,000 different options of sound. And you can have like 500 plugins in your studio. So of course, it is really difficult to know when something's finished. And I still sometimes faced that problem, like how do I know when something's actually finished. But yeah, creating music in a time bound environment really helped me to not only be productive and not worry about the small, finer details, but to also basically make me super creative through the rest of my day. Again, running businesses, you need to think creatively you need to think out the box. And this really helps me and I do this every day. And so yeah, and then talk about communities, of course, it's really important to create your own communities and more than anything, these these are going to be, you know, your tribe, your village, they say it takes a village to you know, to greet anything in success. And it's really important along the way that you are creating your community and you have a way to communicate with them. You know, in one way is way so for me it's a very closed Whatsapp group for my superfans. For other artists. It's a discord channel, but definitely start thinking about that. So yeah, having mentors so along the way, it's really important to have mentors, if you can find them. The one of the biggest things about this and being really strategic when you get to that point of releasing is having people in your corner who are going to pitch for you, right. So typically, if you're learning from someone, or if you have a mentor, they probably have released on good labels as well. And so there's nothing better than those people pitching your music for you rather than you sending call old emails. So yeah, that is really, really important. And, and even if it's not a mentor, it might be other artists as well who might be releasing on similar labels or released on the label that you like. But again, this all comes down to relationship building. And if you're not able to find those people, of course, the online world is now so easy to kind of create relationships through but also, you know, really strongly advocate, whatever label that you're interested in releasing it in, like investing time going to those label parties, trying to get the backstage access, and really building your kind of presence in those communities. But yeah, so being strategic about who you work with is also really important. When you get to that next stage of having your music written, you then obviously need to get them mixed. Because when you pitch, you don't want to have something that's not at its best on equality, you don't have to have your tracks mastered, but you should, I think, have them mixed. And I happened to pick a mixing engineer who was releasing on bedrock, and some really other significant labels. I didn't pick him thinking that he was going to pitch music for me, I picked him because I wanted that quality of the mix to be in my music. But naturally, we developed a working relationship, and he felt the music that I was producing. And he he said, If you want me to send them to Digweed, then you know I can and again, had no expectations. But suddenly out of nowhere, he sent me an email being like, did we just played your first track? And this track hasn't hasn't even come out yet, by the way? And of course, yeah, again, it's such a great feeling to have that validation that somebody that you've, you know, John, John Digweed is, is that benchmark, I mean, he has been one of the most influential people on my sound, my journey and progressive house. So I literally knew I could die happy tomorrow, you know, I knew I'd reached my goal in terms of like, being at the level I wanted to be with production. And just getting back to that album. And I look back now, like, I definitely wasn't at that Sonic quality that I wanted to be, you know, sure the track sounded okay, they sounded cool. They're definitely not like what they are today. So yeah, and then also just sharing something else was it's it, these deals, they can come super easy. And they can come super difficult, right, in terms of, it could be one email, or it could be a long process of like dropping emails. And actually, in the beginning, that track that was played by John Digweed, I pitched it to another label. And that label, we're not gonna name any names, but they were also a pretty significant label, and they wanted to sign the track. And it was a pretty quick exchange, right. But as the process was going on, and I do remember thinking, wow, like, it's not that difficult, you know. But as the process was going along, some sketchy things started to appear in the deal. And I started to notice that they were, you know, not really sending me a contract, they wanted the mixdown, they wanted the premaster. And luckily, because I do have mentors, they were able to advise me and say like, that isn't cool, like, and especially at that calibre of that label. They're definitely trying to take advantage of the fact that you're a first time artist releasing and, and pretty much crush you with any of your rights without you realising. I have heard from friends that there have been situations like shockingly, where some I'm not saying this label would have done that, but but a friend of mine told me they'd been times where like, they had pitched music to some labels. And those labels went and released it without giving them any credits. And these were artists wanting these labels. So they were pretending it was them, which is like, absolutely. I mean, it's, I don't think this would happen a lot. But like, you know, you do need to make sure that like a contract, at least a basic idea of a contract is sent across before you send the premaster. And so yeah, having the courage to walk away from something that fundamentally went against my values, because again, you know, having now waited for it for quite a while, between 2016 to 2023. While this deal was on the table, and 22. But having waited quite a few years for that, and I'm somebody who is extremely value driven in what I do. I was like, I'm not going to just release for the sake of being ticking a box and knowing that I'm on a good label when this is everything I advocate for against in the scene, right? Like this isn't cool. So yeah, I didn't send them the premaster. I walked away from the deal. And and then it took much longer to get more deals on the table. Just because then I had to really think about the next kind of people that I could approach. And so yeah, the next sort of things that I would say, again, coming back to discipline, and everything else is like then basically having that because because for me that experience happened quite organically and I at this point hadn't started to be disciplined in my process of sending to labels. So at this point, I sort of started drawing up a Google sheet and really identifying like, which track would sound good for which label and of course there are a lot of pretty users out there who just send their music out to labels without really thinking like if there's really isn't much. And there are a few things about this, because number one, you know, some people also get trapped into creating a sound that maybe sounds like drum code or sounds like bedrock. And they pitch the same sounding music to label and
there's a line in a way of like, labels not wanting to hear copy paste, or you know, exactly the same, they are looking for something so like, that has an edge that has a differentiation, of course, they could go back to all the artists on the labels, if they wanted the same kind of music, you know, coming out, right. So that is something important to kind of just be aware of, is that when you're producing, it really should be a reflection of you and your identity, and ultimately, your signature sound. And, of course, you know, for some, for some artists, including myself, like you don't want to just release on one label because then you're just going to be associated with that one thing like, for me as well, I'm quite a versatile artists like I like producing organic house, I like producing melodic techno, I like producing progressive house. And that is also how I play as a DJ. And so there is like a red line that I've had to find where in, in my productions, you will hit elements of progressive, you will hit elements of techno, you will hear elements or organic or ethnic, not in every single but like there will be a lot of commonalities that was also quite important. And so yeah, having that, you know, Google Sheet and identifying those labels that you want to target. And then really thinking about who those people are like in those labels, right? Like, who is the a&r? Who are those artists and really identifying that, either through LinkedIn finding, finding that out or going, really studying the labels? And then figuring out what's your route into that relationship? Right? Can you go to those label parties? is a friend of yours and artists on that label? Or do you know someone who knows someone, and can they pitch it for you, because, again, I do think it's really strong when other people are pitching your music. It's like, if a friend of yours told you today, like, Oh, my God, I just had this amazing podcast episode by Steven Bartlett. He spoke to, I know Deepak Chopra, and he was talking about X, Y, Zed, like, you're going to be more convinced to go out there and want to listen to that, because it's come from somebody you trust to who you respect in terms of their taste. And who knows you. And I think it's the same mindset for labels, like when an artist or when somebody in the scene, recommend something to them, it's much more personal, it's and it's definitely way more personal than writing a cold email. And just pitching it without them even like knowing who you are, knowing your vibe like all of this, the steps it takes for someone to listen is sometimes much more around who you are as a brand as a person. And it is before they actually reach that point of listening, right. So that's kind of important to know, it's also important to have, you know, multiple people in your corner, right. So for me, along the way, since 2014, many mentors came into my life. And I sought that I actively sought those people out. Again, in COVID, there were, it was so amazing in being in the industry and seeing so many like tier one top headline artists starting their own kind of education courses, their own mentorship communities, again, something that you know, I did invest money into, but no one's time, not many people's time is free, right? And the opportunity to even have access to speak to, you know, and be a part of those communities where those artists are sharing such invaluable information. For me, again, it's invaluable. And in the end, like a lot of those people, they are the ones again, that are vouching for you and are able to pitch for you. So that was really important. And from there, it took pretty much another whole year before the tracks got signed. And part of this was because Digweed had played the first track it had really given me validation that these tracks are of a certain standard. And I really want them to be released on a label that represents that standard. And can have a you know, a big impact. But at that point, this is again, where like the people you work with, the tribes you surround yourself with is super important because apart from brainstorming, like which labels you want to target, having those people that can be in your corner and pitch for you. That that is like so, so important. And and so at this point, Frankie has been releasing on amazing labels for more than a decade and he was able to kind of see some of the targets I had and really open up the doors to those conversations. And at the same time, I was building my brand behind the scenes on social media and my podcasts and things like that and attending industry conferences and I really again couldn't advocate for this you know more strongly because if you don't have the relationships that I've sort of talked about here, I mean, this is a melting pot of opportunity for developing those relationships. I mean going to places like Amsterdam Dance Event and IMS I mean there are panel was dedicated to how to get your tracks signed, you know, by significant decision makers and a&r hours from from different labels. So again, you know, go into those places with questions already in mind sit in the front row. So you can, you know, talk to those people as soon as the panels end, because people's times are also, of course, limited at these things as well. So you want to make sure you're on pole position to get that opportunity, and build those relationships that you don't have yet, it is also a marathon, not a sprint. So you can't expect that obviously, you go to one conference, and loads of things are going to move, but it's, you know, the, the opportunity again, to build those relationships, the industry is so global, so there's no doubt that, you know, you'll probably bump into some of those people that you meet at different events around the world. And, and continue building, you know, those relationships, or those people might start following you on Instagram, and then they, you know, start to see on a weekly basis, like what you're up to, there's also a caveat that, you know, COVID has changed so much. And there are different players in the market now. And you need to build relationships with them, too. So yeah, I couldn't recommend more highly enough saving up to attend important industry conferences like this. And you also get a really interesting amount of knowledge about the different perspectives of what's happening in different parts of the world. And so yeah, get yourself there. And then the next kind of stage is like, right, so you're, you're building that relationship, you're figuring out your entry point into it. And of course, again, I will say like, the beginning part is much harder. Like once you're on the bandwagon, and you have, you know, you're already signed to labels, and you already start having a lot of good relationships, it might be a lot easier. For me in the last week, literally two tracks got signed in the space of one conversation, right? But it wasn't like that before. So the the, the foundation of what you have to build always takes a lot longer to so right. So that's important. And then it's also along the way being quite sort of strategic as well about your marketing, right, because we talked about how that third pillar is really about marketing. And even if you don't have those, that music out there right now with those with those labels, your social media is is really important. I mean it is your bit your Instagram or your Tik Tok it is your business card at the end of the day, like just think about when you go out, and you meet someone new, and they're like, they don't ask you for your business card, they're like, what's your Instagram so I can follow you. So it's really important to understand how you can create an interesting profile, create a brand. And in my personal opinion, this all begins with values, right? Like being very clear on what your values are as a person and what your values are as a brand, and building pillars that you basically build your profile from. So also, like fans, nowadays, they really want to connect to your fans to artists authentically, they want to know what that story is they, and they want to know what the artist advocates for as well. So, you know, we're all human, we all have similar, maybe we all have similar worries, desires, because our experiences are very different. But for example, like for me, you know, being bullied in school. This is something that I strongly advocate against, right and talk quite a lot about and, and that is something that's super relatable and super personable. And I genuinely care about that, because I wouldn't, I don't want children, you know, to go through the same experiences that I had. And, and that's what you know, music really, for me was a coping mechanism and a healing process away from that difficulty of not fitting in and people, you know, being mean, mean to you at the end of the day. But yeah, thinking, what is that story? What are those causes that you're passionate about, that you want to champion in your career that you want to stand for? And not only just because your fans want to connect your story, but also because when you become a successful artist, as you're becoming a successful artist, it's so important to, to make change, right? Not only sonically but you're in a position where people look up to you, they they are inspired by you, they you might you know, change someone's life through your music and imagine if, you know, you change someone's life through your music, but you are like such a mean person, like you were that person that was trying to take advantage of smaller scale artists, like the scene already, like has so many sharks and you know, unfortunately, a lot of toxic people. So don't be that person, like be that person that is in using that position to make change. Like I hope that you know, that is really what comes also out just from this whole podcast as well. So yeah, so yeah, having that social media and being very clear on your causes your identity, your brand, your colours, like again, when you're picking your colours, like what is the psychology behind your colours, like and yeah, there's a lot of, you know, your own research that you can do out there and kind of rebuilding that that brand, but yeah, then kind of going into, you know, why does that matter, right? So, when you're signing a deal, you know, to a label again, it's it's a value exchange. ain't right like labels want to be clear on what value you can bring them as well as them bringing to you. And I would always try and advocate for a 5050 split, at the end of the day, why the artist has probably invested a lot of money and time in making this music. So the same amount of time that you've spent,
you know, creating that music has to go into your post release, or your your release plan, right? Because then it doesn't, when you actually release the records, there's so much of your time has to go into the marketing aspect. And again, this is where having a strong social media channel, having your community all of that stuff is really, really important. And so labels want to see what is that value that you can bring them right. And so that is really important to think about, I'm just being professional with your socials and talking about professionalism, also being professional in the whole exchange of working with this label. So making sure that you know, contracts are being signed, and making sure that you are aware, like, sometimes I've seen artists, you just get super excited, they got a contract, they sign it, and they have no idea that they've been, you know, completely, like screwed by the deal, right? So it can be overwhelming reading legal contracts. But again, you know, you can like go out there and and find either lawyers, you know, even use chat GVT these days to like, pre qualify and see if like a contract or anything that might bring a red flag, right? Like there are tools out there. If you are writing cold email, I just want to touch on this because I am aware that of course, a lot of people will write those emails and even I did it as well, at some point. In the beginning, what I would say about that email is like, obviously, don't make it an essay, like nobody has time who doesn't know you, especially to read an essay, right? It's got to be to the point, it's got to be professional, and it needs to touch upon a couple of lines on who you are. Why do you like this label? Like very importantly, like, what does this label mean to you? Why do you think that you want to release on this label, I would then use the next couple of sentences to kind of paint a picture of what these tracks are like. So describe them sonically, like, you know, describe what instruments you use, describe anyone that might be involved, describe if the tracks been supported already by other artists. Again, if you just put this as my track, take a listen. It's not as in you know, it's not as enticing as, actually, oh, this is a really cool blues track that brings like progressive elements like, Oh, that's interesting, you know, so yeah, saying things like that, then making sure that the links that you've sent for the demo is on SoundCloud. Most like most I think most labels prefer SoundCloud or Dropbox, definitely not we transfer it again, if you think about it, label might not get to this email for like three weeks, the transfer may have expired. Nobody wants to really download music onto their computer of people they don't know file can be corrupted could have a virus, like who knows. So yeah, I think SoundCloud is the most professional way. And also you can see who's listened. And the other thing about uploading on SoundCloud two things, really important. Number one is make sure it has the correct metadata. So it has your name, and the name of the track. There's so many times I've heard artists have not done that. And then, like I've even seen, you know, artists kind of like make videos like, Oh, I got this sick track. But I have no idea who it's from. And like if that's you, please like get in touch. But you know, some artists aren't going to go to or label owners aren't going to go to that degree of effort. And secondly, if you are pitching assure that the track is not more than a few weeks old. If it's been up there for six months, it's not going to be fresh, right? Like, like labels not going to think this is like yeah, fresh. So even if it is six months old, delete it and put a new one up there. And also just want to touch upon do you send tracks to multiple labels at the same time, the same track? Or do you kind of wait a little bit? So you obviously, you know, the dream scenario is like, yeah, those labels say yes, but then you're in an awkward situation. Because if three of the say of three of the labels you like have now suddenly all said yes, like you're in an awkward position, because you're going to have to let two of them say no, and then are they going to be inclined to listen to you again, when you send those tracks. So my kind of advice on it is pick your number, like top three, right, and obviously be very clear on what your number one is. Centre, the number one and give it about four to six weeks. And in between that six week time period, follow up twice. And I would say that's the maximum. So you know, if you don't hear back in like two or three weeks, send another email being like, Hey, I appreciate you're probably super busy. Summer in full swing, whatever, but just wanted to check if you did have time to listen to the track, and any feedback would be super appreciated. Something like that. And then if you don't hear back, maybe follow up once if at all, and then you know, kind of call it a day and move on. And again, I would be very organised and disciplined with this process because it can just get like, you can't go back to your emails like six weeks ago and figure out where did you send things like it's way too much headache like I really advocate for project management tools. I personally use something called monday.com It's amazing, I'm a very kind of colour driven person. So having a board on monday.com allows me to see like, who I've pitched to what stage I'm at. And also, I have another board of like when I've actually released staff or when things are in contract phase. And again, if you think like, eventually, you're gonna hopefully be in a point position where you have like, 100 records out or 50 records out. And you need to be very clear on like, when did those? When did those things come out? One of those things coming out, like, what, who worked on it, who was the mixing engineer, you know, when does the rights period and any notes, so you again, want to have a very clear and structured and organised place where you're keeping that information. And then yeah, like, if you hopefully you get signed, then it's really important to, you know, now work with that label, right now you're in that position. And you, obviously, you want to make this release a massive success. So make it easy as possible for labels to Yes, to say yes, by being organised by being professional, and really start to hone down the marketing strategy. Because from that point, it's going to be about creating, you know, behind the scenes tour of like the studio when you made that track. And even if the tracks obviously being written, you know, just refilling in the studio, and re and performing some of those things, interviews, press, like all of the different ways that you think can be interesting to market. Because you're going to need to create quite a lot of content for social media, right. And, again, I have a 30 day actually a 60 day release plan, which is like a something I created on Google Sheets. And it's pretty much you know, almost the same now for all of the labels I'm releasing on, I'm remembering all of the things I need to do, because it can it's pretty much the same stuff. It's just the it's just different content, right. But it's, it's really easy to forget, like that you need to do this, and you need to do that. And you need to upload the YouTube shorts, and you need to upload the tic toc. And you need to format it for this. So yeah, I think it's important to create those templates so that it's just starts becoming like, a process in your workflow. And, and then yeah, I think you know, also labels want to work with artists that have momentum. So again, this is where the social media thing is really important. Like, even if you're not getting gigs, or you're not releasing on labels, just think like, How can I, you know, create that momentum when you get to that point of the track coming out. And the release happening, like the shelf life of music, we know is super short these days. So it's it is really important to maximise those three or four weeks after. And it's important to pay attention, especially to the comments and the feedback that you receive on the promos that the DJs are basically downloading from your records. So if you are an artist, you may already know that labels use services like in flight and as the artist you get access to in flight. And you can see when people have downloaded the track if artists are writing comments what they're writing, and build relationships with those people to springboard to the next opportunity like follow them on Instagram, send them a message saying, hey, thanks so much for the amazing feedback you left on XYZ ad like super appreciate it. And we'd love to send you my unreleased music for the rest of the year. And you never know like you've got their attention. And so yeah, building from that momentum, once you are on that Springboard is keeping the releases consistent, right, so every six to eight weeks starting to release music and being in that position again, if you have created time on your side. So having those 10 tracks in your arsenal that are mixed before you start pitching so that when the time comes and those labels already sing your music, and you're having to now spend a lot of your time on the marketability of that track that you're able to have time and space to go away and create music without being worried to you know, suddenly create another one to keep the to keep the hype of the momentum going. And also last couple of things as well. I found that submit hub and Groover were really important like playlist strategy is super important. The labels you release with are hopefully going to pitch on Spotify for you. But it's also equally important to get on the big playlist by other you know, other users and submit hub and Groover are amazing places again, to invest money in in being able to pitch to these big playlists is so don't don't skimp out on that. It's really important to start building that Spotify profile as you are releasing your music. And yeah, hope you've enjoyed a lot of the information shared today. As we're wrapping up, I just want to hone back into their relationships, aspect and that really, you know, this is the most valuable investment that you guys can make. Go to those music conferences, find your mentors, create your own communities, join the discord channels, and communicate and pay attention to what's happening in the industry. This is absolutely, you know, invaluable and yeah, it's so nice to have a tribe of people that you can go back to I can also feed back and be in your corner are facing similar things that you guys are facing right? And so with that being said, wishing you guys all the best of luck in creating amazing music and in releasing your music on your dream labels and creating those communities that have impact. Until next time, keep it laser focused.