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EP 010 / 15.03.2022


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Mark Gallagher  0:00  

It's not enough to say I'm not racist, and I don't, you know, I'm happy for people of any colour or background to have opportunity, you have to actively promote it. And I think the act of promotion is so important. And this is why I know that's why John is so passionate about it, it's not enough for us to sit on our hands and say, Well, I'm not racist. So therefore, there's no problem. Actually, you've got to be much more coherent in terms of promoting it. And I think some teams have done very well, I think Formula One has had some really good initiatives. But the proof of the pudding is whether, when you have that team photograph taken at the end of each year, you know, what's the makeup of the team? Who are the people you're employing at the factory? Who are the schools in universities that you're working with? Who are the people that you are reaching out to and communicating with, and this is, I think, again, why the Hamilton commission was such a very practical step for Louis to have taken. 


Farah Nanji  1:00  

you're listening to the mission makers show, a podcast that inspires humans to get into the mindset of success. My name is Farah Nanji. And I'm the founder of a business in the motorsports industry that explores leadership lessons from things like Formula One. I'm also a DJ and music producer in the underground electronic scene, and a public speaker on key topics like resilience, building high performance teams, overcoming learning difficulties and stimulating creativity. And to tie it all together, I love writing thought provoking content as a journalist for these industries, which is so unique in themselves. On this show, I'm sitting down with some of the most inspiring and driven people I've met around the world to talk about their processes, their failures, the lessons they've learned, and how they're truly making an impact to this world. It's the penultimate episode of season three, and I'm super excited to be joined today by my colleague, Mark Gallagher. Mark is a renowned figure in Formula One with over 30 years dedicated to the sport. He has held C suite positions with leading brands such as Red Bull Racing, where he has helped establish their commercial arms, as well as a decade on the management board of the highly successful race winning team Jordan Grand Prix with Eddie Jordan. He's worked closely with some of the most highly acclaimed drivers from Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Mika Hakkinen, and David Colton. And he's also a fantastic Motivational Speaker, speaking regularly for companies around the world about how they can benefit from leadership lessons learned in Formula One, such as teamwork, managing risk, technology, and more. It's safe to say we've got a mammoth episode today, touching upon all of the above, plus his thoughts on the upcoming Formula One season with a lot of incredible behind the scenes insight, and I'm super, super excited to dive in. So just before we begin, if you're interested in watching the video version of this podcast, head over to YouTube and type in Mark Gallagher mission makers to see the show. And if you're interested in some really cool rewards like Virtual DJ lessens the chance to ask our guests questions and exclusive merchandise, head over to forward slash mission makers to check out how you can access these exclusive rewards. And thank you to all of you who've been writing into us and subscribing to the show, it really makes a difference. So don't forget to hit that subscribe button. If you love the content we're making here at Mission makers, and help us take this show to the next level. 


Mark, welcome to Mission makers. How're you doing today?


Mark Gallagher  3:29  

I'm really good. Great to talk to you, Farah. And it's been a long time.


Farah Nanji  3:35  

It has indeed pre pre COVID I think was the last time we actually caught up properly. So it's great to have an excuse to catch up today. But no, you're an amazing human. What you've achieved in motorsport is absolutely remarkable. And, you know, I thought it'd be a great opportunity to invite you to mission makers today and pick your brains on all things motorsport. So one of the first questions


Mark Gallagher  4:00  

Sorry, I'm interrupting you already. Yeah, very happy to join you. And honestly, it's very kind of you to introduce me in that way. I don't feel like I've achieved anything that a lot of people haven't achieved or have gone on to pursue a career in this wonderful sport of ours. But it's certainly a great opportunity for Mission Makers to share my thoughts or insights on whatever it is you want to talk to me about, and I'm really looking forward to it really can't wait.


Farah Nanji  4:26  

Yeah, definitely. Well, it's a talented bunch in Formula One. So one of the first questions that we actually like to ask our guests is really going a bit deeper into the meaning of their name. And, interestingly, we asked a Formula One driver this question on mission makers as he shares the same first name as you. So I'm very interested to hear your response and I wonder if you can guess which driver it was as well. But the meaning of your name mark is from what we research found. It means warlike or warrior. So do you think that this might subconsciously feed into your incredibly strong and driven character?


Mark Gallagher  5:08  

Wow, um, can I guess at the driver was Mark Weber,


Farah Nanji  5:11  

you're wrong, but very close. 


Mark Gallagher  5:14  

Okay. To think about that further. Porsche war, like, I think one of the things, which is definitely a feature of me, and I suppose, like my career that I've had has been quite a strong resilience. And I do, I probably battle through changes whenever they come up, I've had to kind of reinvent myself a couple of times, which I think is quite normal for any career. You know, I went from journalist into PR for PR and sponsorship from sponsorship into senior management roles. So I've always kind of had to battle through a degree of reinvention. But I think that's the nature of the world we live in, you know, nothing stays the same. for very long. So yeah, maybe there. Maybe there's something in that. But it's really interesting to think about it.


Farah Nanji  6:11  

Yeah, definitely warrier mindset for sure and the driver was Mark Blundell.


Mark Gallagher  6:18  

Great guy. I mean, there's a great guy he has got I mean, I'm sure you had a wonderful time talking to him, because he is kind of a contemporary of mine, when I would have been in my early 20s, Mark was arriving in motorsport. And he was a superb driver. And in fact, I got to know his father quite well, his father was a hell of a personality and to then see what Mark went on to achieve. And as you well know, Mark was part of a, they call themselves the Rat Pack, there was Damon Hill, there was Mark Lawndale, there was Martin Donnelly, the repairing McCarthy, Johnny Herbert, a little group of kind of 1980s British racing drivers, and they all went on to achieve extraordinary things in motorsport. So I've been privileged to get to know them over the years. So nice to know that you had a Mark on, he certainly fits the bill of a warrior fighter.


Farah Nanji  7:13  

Absolutely. And we'll definitely talk about that, as you alluded to, you have won quite a few hearts in your motorsport career. And so let's just go straight to the beginning, you know, what first led you down that rabbit hole of motorsport?


Mark Gallagher  7:29  

It is interesting to reflect on what it is that triggers your interest in the sport. I was telling you before we press the record button on the podcast that I moved house, just before Christmas, last year. And in doing so I had to go through lots of archives and things that I've gathered over the years. I came across the very first book on motor racing that was bought for me by my father in 1973. And I remember he was on a business trip to England. Obviously, I'm from Ireland. And when he came home, we had bought this book. And it was all about Formula One and racing and, when I saw the book, I vividly remember him handing that to me. And it. It coincides with the first year that I remember watching Formula One races on television, so I was 11 years old. And I remember watching Jackie Stewart winning the Grand Prix and winning the championship that year. So 1973 seems to have been a year when I really got to know the sport and had a couple of memorable things happen. But I know that I used to watch racing before that, you know, when I was eight, nine years of age, we'd watch it on television. So I think somewhere in all of that my father probably played a key role. And it was actually only many, many years later. And fortunately, around the time that he passed away in 2002, I came to realise that he used to go to see major sports car races in the 1950s. And in Northern Ireland at the time, we had an event called the The terrorist trophy, which was held on in Don drawed. And it had all of the greats Juan Manuel Fangio, Stirling Moss, Mike Hawthorn, all of the top all of the top drivers at the time came to that and apparently my dad used to go and watch those events and get terribly excited about them. So he must have passed some of that passion on and certainly I like to think that maybe that's part of my DNA is the passion that my dad had for racing.


Farah Nanji  9:39  

Hmm, very, very interesting. So did you kind of know from the beginning that it was Journalism and Broadcasting that you wanted to get into and what were your sort of experiences in that role?


Mark Gallagher  9:54  

So this is again, a very, very topical point because When I moved house again, I came across my scrapbooks. When I was a kid at school, I had started making scrapbooks about racing and rallying. And I don't know what the contemporary equivalent would be this off, probably a digital version. But I would literally cut things out of magazines. And I write stories about races and rallies. And I got to know a few drivers myself because of friends of my families who were involved in rallying and involved in racing. And so I think at a really quite an early age, I had an interest in, in observing the sport and recording it and reporting on it and writing about it. So that was clearly quite a formula of experience. But then definitely, in my teenage years, I started to think about how I could work in motorsport. And like, I think probably like everyone, you go through a phase of thinking, I'd love to drive. And I used to, I used to think about that. But I quickly banished that because I, you know, my family were comfortable. Well, our family, but they weren't super rich family. And I wasn't going to be sponsored by, you know, my father to become a formula ford driver or something. So I kind of parked that quite early on. And while I was at university studying economics and business management, I suppose my passion for the sport began to evolve into, I just love the complexity of it. I love the fact that to get a car on the track, or to get a car on the rally circuit, you've got to design and manufacture it, you've got to get it sponsored, you've got to find the money somewhere, there's a whole bunch of things have to happen. It's such an interesting cocktail behind the world of motorsports that it really began to interest me. And then when I graduated and was fortunate enough to apply for and land a job at Autosport magazine, that really enabled me to come into the industry because Autosport back in those days was, you know, we're talking pre-internet. So it was the go to publication for everyone in the UK, everyone in the UK motorsport bought auto sport every week. And if you read auto sport cover to cover, you quickly got to know the industry. So that that became my kind of segue into the professional side of racing, I worked at the advertising department of auto sport to begin with, and then quickly began to pass to the editor to let me write for them. And within a few years, within a very few years, I was working in writing full time for all the sport, motoring news and other publications and really enjoyed that, that early opportunity working in the media. It's a fantastic way to get to know everyone in the industry.


Farah Nanji  13:02  

What's your view of the current state of media in Formula One at the moment?


Mark Gallagher  13:07  

Oh, that's a lovely question. Farah, because I think this my own personal view, is that the sport has never been healthier from so many perspectives, because we have an embarrassment of riches. You know, again, it's difficult for me to talk about this without sounding like a really older person, you know, but I have to recognise I've now been in this industry for, you know, almost four decades and we have gone from a world in which it was really difficult to follow motorsport followed Formula One, with difficulties. You couldn't see practice sessions, you couldn't see qualifying sessions quite often, you couldn't see an entire race. And certainly, there was no no internet, there was no rolling news coverage. It was a race. A magazine that came out four days later. I mean, it was if you were hungry for the sport that hunger was seldom satisfied. And now you can eat live and breathe modern racing seven days a week if you choose to do so. It's, I think, you know, so much better today. And I love what SkySports one do. I love what channel four in the UK have done and I you know, I work with Jack Vale nerve who works for candle Bluesun in France, and I know the work that he does there, Mika Hakkinen, who I work with is about to start working with broad broadcaster in the Nordic Region in this year's World Championship. And you know, so I work with a lot of these people and see the degree to which they're being able to communicate their insight in the sport. So I think this board is very healthy in so many ways, and I think the media generally are incredibly good at serving the fan base. There are individual journalists who are absolutely outstanding, you know, I wouldn't normally name names, but I will say that, you know, I read Andrew Benson on the BBC, I read Mark Hughes, because he gives tremendous insight in Motorsport Magazine. Of course, I've got my colleagues who work with a Grand Prix racing magazine and motorsport network, Stewart Codling and Ben Anderson, Chris Medland, you know, lots of lots of really good influential journalists who know the sport inside out. And then of course, you got the social media observers, and some of them are excellent. I mean, really, I just, I get a good laugh and a good enjoyment from following some of these professional and semi professional social media journalists who cover the sport, because again, you get all of this diversity of input and feedback. So you get a very broad range of opinions about the subject. So I think it's all really great. And if I'm going to add a butt to this answer, there is no doubt that the but to the media in F1, and motorsport these days, is the dreadful toxicity that you come across on social media. And


I'm very careful about what I post on social media. And that's probably a pity, because I do really have to think about expressing opinions. Because you will automatically get a backlash if it's perceived in someone else's worldview, that you've said the wrong thing. And I've only, I think twice, really, you know, been trolled. I've really faced the backlash, one once was after the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, and the infamous last lap, between Max and Lewis. And I totally understand, not just understand, I totally buy into the total and utter frustration of Mercedes and Louis fans as to what happened in Saudi Arabia last year. But I think it is a real shame that a proportion of those fans then take their anger out on anyone who is going to comment on what happened in any way other than a narrative, which they agree with. And I happen to be one of those people who don't agree that what happened was a racist assault on Lewis to prevent him winning, and a championship. I think it was a mistake, I think it was a mistake with quite a profound impact on the sports reputation. But I don't agree with a lot of the narrative that was built around that because I'm a great believer that most people go to work to do a good job. And I include Michael Massey in that and he's a professional and you know, what happened on that day happened, but the social media backlash that can sometimes now, emerge if there's anything of a controversial nature, I think is a shame. And it's certainly in recent months led me to question the way in which the sport has embraced social media. To the extent that I think some of the narrative around the sport is now so damaging.


Farah Nanji  18:20  

I mean, online toxicity is such a topical, such a big and important topic. And the platform absolutely needs to do so much more to prevent, and educate people from this sort of mindset of just, as you say, just going after anyone who has a different opinion, to the to the, to the driver that they love. I mean, what are your thoughts on the Netflix drive to survive? Bandcamp? Like, are you a fan of how it was, how it's been portrayed? Obviously, seeing so many sides of the motorsport coin yourself.


Mark Gallagher  18:54  

I love it. I love it. I think that I get the fact that some people say, well, it's attracted a certain type of fan who has bought into a kind of soap opera version of Formula One. That's fine. It's attracted a much bigger fan base . In my day job, I speak to corporate clients all over the world and the drivers that I work with do the same. And I can promise you that during the middle of a global pandemic, we have seen business increase significantly because people are binge watching ‘drive to survive’ and enjoying finding out about Formula One. And I think there's a really important point here, which is that so much of the emphasis on the Netflix effect has been to discuss the influx of new fans into the sport. But there's, in my experience, because people tell me this, we have seen a lot of fans return to Formula One. So these are people who fell out of love with formula one. Quite often during the Schumacher era, I've had more than one senior executive status. gosh, I got bored with Formula One when Schumacher was winning everything back in 2000. So I haven't watched it for 10 years. But now I've fallen in love with it again, because, you know, Netflix reminded me that there are more than two teams, there are eight other teams and even a driver or a team at the back of the grid has got a great story to share. So I think what Formula One has done under liberty in allowing the Netflix series to flourish, and then the way the teams and drivers have engaged with it is terrific. Obviously, there is a danger that over time drivers teams might start to use it in the wrong way to communicate things in perhaps a much less authentic way, a much more controlled kind of public relations way, which would be a shame because I think you need that fly on the wall element to bring it to life. But I love what Netflix have done. And I personally see no reason if it's not handled correctly, why that could not be a permanent feature of the sport going forward.


Farah Nanji  21:05  

Yeah, it's absolutely, you know, incredible how many fans they've bought into this new blood, as you say, into the sport. So let's talk a little bit about your professional journey and motorsports because I know that you know, you were head of marketing with more than a decade of management on the board of Jordan, one pre you then incredibly went on to set up the commercial arm of Red Bull Racing. So yeah, tell our audience a little bit more about sort of, you know about what that journey was like?


Mark Gallagher  21:33  

Yeah, it was, well, great times z answer. Many, many good experiences with Jordan involvement. Again, slightly from my background, because I'm Irish and Eddie, obviously Eddie Jordan being Irish, I met him. In fact, when I was 14 years of age, I asked him for his autograph, he was a very successful driver at the time. And then many years later, fast forward, you know, 10 years, I was working at an old record, and then got to kind of connect with him professionally. And a good very good friend of mine from Ireland, Martin Donnelly had become a very capable Formula Three driver and actually then drove for Eddie in Formula 3000, and was managed by Eddie into Formula One, the Team Lotus. So I developed all these connections and ended up working with Eddie at the foundation of Jordan Grand Prix, and through that first memorable season, when the team finished fifth in the world championship, and, of course, gave Michael Schumacher his debut. And, you know, we had a remarkable year. So I then left Eddie, for a while I'd worked for I was working for him on a freelance basis, that first season. And I went off and did other things for a couple of years. And then came back to Jordan, at the end of basically in 1995, brought with me a sponsor, which was Hewlett Packard. And that that helped to shift me into the commercial role that then became part of became my job from then on. And they were great times with a lot of hard work. And he was a demanding boss, but he was inspiring to work with and we had a lot of fun. And we achieved so many goals. You know, the first victory in Belgium was in 1998, was a really memorable moment in my life and in the team's career. So that time at Jordan was a really memorable experience. And I am thankful for the fact that I did take time to reflect during that period, that we were probably going through something special. And I think all too often you don't do that. But I have tended to be a person who's tried to, you know, Wake up and smell the coffee. So every so often. So I did. I did realise that times were pretty special. So that was really great. And the nice thing about being part of Jordan was that you were given a lot of responsibility, I think the marketing department at Jordan. By the end, I think we had something like 30 I think 30 people working for me and marketing, Jordan, so all the sponsorship and hospitality and public relations and the merchandising. And it was pretty, pretty substantial. And we were interestingly far from running on a budget. At our peak, we were running on a budget, which today is the cost cap more than 20 years later. So you know we were doing something right as a small, independent team and then the Red Bull opportunity came as a result of I mean a call literally when I left Jordan Grand Prix I got a call and asked to, to come and help them and only work with Red Bull, when it was Jaguar Red Bull is that pivot point as Jaguar transfer, transformed into Red Bull Racing only worked with the team for about a year but obviously met Christian was in the team before Chris was deployed. Obviously, Adrian knew he hadn't joined the team. But I remember having a long conversation with David Coulthard about whether he should come and drive for the team. And, of course, he he subsequently agreed to do that, because he was he had exited McLaren the previous year. And I love the fact that I was in there at the beginning, met Dietrich Mateschitz work with him, and had the job of setting up that initial portfolio of sponsors that the team had, I have a slight regret that I didn't stay at Red Bull. But the decision was taken out of my hands, because Red Bull wanted to run the commercial operations from Salzburg. And you know, so I went off, but actually they did me a favour because it was the money that Red Bull paid me off with that then helped me to set up my own racing team. And we did the one GP championship and that became my kind of my next thing. And again, going back to your early on in the in the podcast. As I mentioned, you know, my name, kind of about being a warrior and fighting. You know, when I left Red Bull, I decided to do something difficult, which was to set up a team and was very fortunate to me to an Irish businessman called Mark Herschel. And basically, he provided the funding and I provided the, if you like, the expertise to set the team up. And we, we had just an amazing and fun time together here and I particularly with the with that whole programme. So really one opportunity leads to another and my Jordan and Red Bull experiences were extremely important to me because it, it showed me the basics of what's needed to to be successful in Formula One, I don't think that the formula for success has actually changed that much. Even if the technology and the complexity of the sport has evolved. I don't think the fundamental requirements to be a competitive team have ever really changed.


Farah Nanji  27:28  

What is that formula of success, in your opinion?


Mark Gallagher  27:32  

Very clear leadership, working for ready. He used to say to me, my name is you know, his name, Jordan is over the door of the factories that you know, the buck stops with him. So you're very clear leadership, he was very focused on getting deals done. You know, he was very deal focused people, people I find it interesting people used to criticise me for being money oriented. Well, if you're not money oriented as a business person, you won't have much of a business and Frank Williams and Ron Dennis, and all of the greats have been money focused because you need money to feed the beast that is a Formula One team. So Eddie provided very clear to commercial leadership. And he also then employed the right people in key roles. And whether it was important, you know, asking Gary Anderson to design the first cars or, you know, bringing in notable people like Sam Michael and Dino tozo, as race engineers who themselves went on to become very senior people. And in Formula One, of course, Sam has technical director of, of Williams and that you look at and Andy Green, you know, today, still in the senior technical role at Aston Martin f1. You know, 30 years after he was one of the three designers of the first Jordan f1 car. So any provided good strong leadership, invested in the right people, give people that opportunity to be the best of themselves, and to create a framework within which you all were pulling in the same direction. I think those things stand the test of time. And when I look at what Tony wolf has achieved at Mercedes Benz, you only have to speak to toto for a short amount of time about the success of Mercedes and he again will talk to you about having very clear goals and ambitions having a team of people who are empowered to, to deliver it to these ambitious goals to have the right kind of transparency. And, you know, far as you know, universities have a fantastic communications team and one of the things they do is they do the post race debrief which they provide to the general public and the media. And that that actually tells you a lot about Mercedes. They they have this passion to share. How can we improve Have week to week to week, how can we get better next weekend next month next year, they're never satisfied, they have this constant curiosity to, to perform better. And that comes from the strength of the leadership and the fact that toto realises that, you know, he can't design the car, he can't build the engine, but what he can do is he can create an environment within which the best people are attracted to come and work for the team and to deliver great success for them. So again, for a sport that span so much of its time talking about technology and complexity and rules and regulations and money. Actually, the thing which defines the successful teams are our people. And it's, it's the human qualities, it's the way those people interact and work together that that's, that's the magic formula, it comes down to how people work together. And the flip side of that is that when you look at an unsuccessful team in Formula One, you don't have to look too far to find quite negative behaviours. And earlier this year, I did an interview yasuhito for Grand Prix racing magazine. And I found my chat with him absolutely fascinating, because in telling me what he did, since he joined Williams, IT committee showed me what was wrong at Williams beforehand. And this was something I had kind of already gained an insight to because I supplied them with with with engines when I was at Cosworth. But you know, yours talked about the fact that there were different factions within the team, that they weren't really all pulling in the same direction, that communications were not really that strong. There was a kind of, there was kind of slightly vague leadership. And there was the blame culture, you know, he talked about mean, he talked about the fact that he does not now have a blame culture in the team. So that means by default, that the team must have had a blame culture before. And of course, if you have people blaming each other every time something goes wrong, I mean, it just destroys team cohesion, and it's destructive. So I think this as I've gotten older, this fascination I have with what makes a good team great. And what makes a poor team bad is really interesting. It comes down, usually to the people.


Farah Nanji  32:16  

How do you think the leadership styles differ between Christian and Toto?


Mark Gallagher  32:22  

Very well, there's an interesting one, I mean, very different personalities. Let's talk about what they have in common. I mean, what they have in common, is an absolute passion to win. I mean, it's, and it reached the surface, you know, that passion came out during 2021. You know, whether it's toto throwing his headphones across the garage and shouting at the camera, or whether it's, you know, Christian getting upset, and, you know, giving interviews that that made it pretty clear what he thought about things that are going on. Here, you have two guys here wearing their heart on their sleeve, because they are, they eat, live and breathe Formula One they want to win, they don't want to leave any stone unturned. Their styles of management are probably quite different. I, oddly enough, I probably know more about totok style of management because I've done some work with I've been fortunate enough through the work that I do to gain some insight to his style of leadership. And I follow what he has put on YouTube and put out there on social media. And I actually love watching videos of the corporate events in which he spoken out and I think toto has got an hasn't is an extraordinary leader who has, of course, a deep passion for the sport from a young age. He's had this hugely successful entrepreneurial phase of his life, and he's made his money and then come into Formula One. And of course, is not an employee of Daimler Benz, but he is a 1/3 shareholder. He owns the team. He has got skin in the game with that team. So there's a lot about toto that is really very interesting. And I think he has a He's an avid reader, he has a strong belief and that kind of entrepreneurial approach to leading a Formula One team by getting the best people that come and work for you creating an atmosphere, that people are infected with their enthusiasm to work harder and to achieve success. So I think I understand that a lot. Probably better with Toto than I do with Christian. Yet I would have spent more time personally with Christian over the years and I think Christian Horner has done a remarkable job over 17 years at Red Bull Racing because he has been a steady hand on the on the tiller during some probably quite turbulent times because I don't think that Red Bull ever accept anything other than winning so I can Imagine Dietrich Mateschitz and Helmut Marko have given Christian and an entirely easy time over the years, but somehow Christian has managed Red Bulls expectations and invested their money in the right way. He and Adrian have formed this extraordinary duet. I mean, it's the Christian Adrian partnership to me is, is no different from Ron Dennis and John Barnhart and the 80s or Patrick head and product Williams or Gary Anderson and Eddie Jordan, I think it's a beautiful kind of partnership where Christians out there leading from the front doing all the media stuff dealing with the sponsors, Adrian handling all the technical side. So actually quite a traditional structure that they have at red ball. And Christian clearly been doing something very, very right all these years because they may not have won the World Championship between 2014 and 2020. But they went constantly knocking on the door and winning races. And it is quite extraordinary whatever any listener thinks about what happened in Saudi Arabia that the sign decided that 2021 World Championship, the very fact that the only team that took the fight to Red Bull or Tokyo Mercedes, as earnestly as they did was Red Bull Racing that an energy drinks and Formula One team has been shown a clean pair of heels to Ferrari, and fought tooth and nail against proceedings. Oh, Christian, clearly has done something absolutely. Right there. So different characters, different personalities, probably slightly different senses of humour. You know, there are different nationalities, you know, there's these these are all different factors, but no question that what joins Christian and Toto at the hip is their deep, unbridled passion to succeed in this business. And that's what that's why their teams are successful. 


Farah Nanji  37:05  

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You mentioned turbulence there. So you've definitely seen many of the crises that Formula One has faced over the last few decades, you know, things like losing tobacco sponsorship, and so on and so forth. So, you know, then obviously, today, we're speaking we're still in that sort of COVID 19 crisis. So it has that been one of the biggest that you've you've experienced? And what are your thoughts on how like the sport has handled this crisis?


Mark Gallagher  38:17  

What a terrific question. I think the answer I'll give you two, that is what I tell my corporate clients, which is that if you look at Formula One over the last 20 years, it has actually faced a crisis of some kind every, every four years, pretty well. Just you know, around about 2000, we lost a huge number of technology sponsors because there was a sort of technology boom and bust in North America. And I remember talking to my opposite number at Williams at the time, and discussing the fact that the sponsorship was going through a rocky period. And then four years later, we lost tobacco sponsorship, which wasn't a small thing. And I think people forget just how that was. I mean, that was it was enormous. It cut the cut the feet from underneath the sport, and many of us at the coalface were wondering how the sport would survive this because we were almost completely reliant on major tobacco sponsors to provide the primary source of funding and it's interesting how the sport resisted that change. And then for a number of years, teams were still looking for Title sponsors with 7080 $90 million. It took a lot of people a long time to realise that those days had gone and they were never coming back. So the tobacco shift was was dramatic. And then of course in 2008, we had the financial crisis and teams like Williams, responsible Royal Bank of Scotland, and you know those the Those big banking deals ing sponsored, ran out at the time, you know, they all these major sponsors disappeared. And then of course, you had the next kind of shift starting to occur the arrival of environmental sustainability as a real issue for sponsors they didn't want to be associated with, you know, gas guzzling petrolhead fossil fueled sport, all that kind of all that kind of stuff. So in many respects, I think Formula One, was, has now got this inbuilt resilience. And it's developed that and when the COVID 19 pandemic broke out, and I'm pretty sure it was the Friday the Australian Grand Prix when it was cancelled in 2020. I'm pretty sure that was the 13th of March two after check that but anyway, Friday, the 13th was a bad day for f1. But it is amazing to think that the sport, within four months pivoted to being a predominantly European Championship with some races in the Gulf, and that it successfully put on a 17 race calendar. And then in parallel to that, also pivoted online with a greater involvement in eSports. And, you know, pushing the eSports as a kind of online version of Formula One, which more fans could engage with, and of course, that met with great success. And then in 21, with the pandemic in full force, to have a 20 to raise World Championship, including somehow being able to go and race it in some of the long haul destinations. It's been extraordinary. And then again, you mentioned the Netflix effect, you know, in the middle of the global pandemic not only has Formula One put on a 22 race, World Championship, it put on one of the most exciting world championships in recent years. And it also saw a growth in its audiences. And it saw an influx in sponsors, thanks to some degree to the Netflix effect. And it really does beg the question if this is what Formula One can do in the middle of a global pandemic, you know, what, what can I achieve when things get back to normal? So, I think the sport has coped with a pandemic in an extraordinary way. And, you know, we haven't even talked about the fact that in the middle of the pandemic, we've also had the Black Lives Matter movement developed, we have had the we racist one campaign, the purpose driven campaign, the push on increased diversity and inclusion, and all of these other topics, which have really had taken centre stage over the last two years. So it, it felt like a really interesting and exciting time for the sport. It doesn't always get everything right. Obviously, mistakes get made. But I think the overall trajectory for Formula One has been terrific. 


Farah Nanji  43:01  

I couldn't agree more. We had Peter Windsor on the on the show last season, and and we were discussing how we think governments could probably take a lot of lessons from the way that Formula One handled the COVID-19 crisis, because yeah, they definitely didn't handle it as well as I think Formula One has, as you say, remarkable. Achievements, despite all of these things, you've touched upon diversity and stuff. So I do want to ask you, you know what your thoughts are on that? Do you believe that the sport is doing enough to level out the playing field, both in terms of gender and race?


Mark Gallagher  43:38  

I don't think you can ever say it's doing enough until the teams reflect the society they serve. And that means that if you have a board of directors that's, you know, a bunch of white guys, that doesn't reflect your customers. It doesn't reflect society. And, actually, earlier on this year, I was speaking to John Ameche. He's a London born NBA player, he had a very successful career in NBA and he is a superb advocate for kind of anti racism. I mean, not not just being in a he's he made a video for the BBC, a couple of years back, which went viral, where he, he talked about the way that it's not enough to say, I'm not racist, and I don't, you know, I'm happy for people of any colour or background to have opportunity, you have to actively promote it. And I think the act of promotion is so important. And this is why I know that's why John is so passionate about it. It's not enough for us to sit on our hands and say, Well, I'm not racist, so therefore, there's no problem. Actually, you've got to be much more coherent in terms of promoting it. And I think some teams have done Very well, I think Formula One has had some really good initiatives. But the proof of the pudding is whether, when you have that team photograph taken at the end of each year, you know, what's the makeup of the team? Who are the people you're employing at the factory? Who are the schools in universities that you're working with? Who are the people that you are reaching out to and communicating with? And this is, I think, again, why the Hamilton commission was such a very practical step for Louis to have taken. And to have people like Martin Whitmarsh, of course, he's now leading the charge for Aston Martin and f1. And he was part of the Hamilton commission. And you look at the diversity of people on the Hamilton commission. And when I say diversity there, I mean, diversity in terms of their backgrounds, their intellectual background of the people who are involved in the Hamilton commission, really, really important. And, of course, then Mercedes Benz activities with schools in London, and Tower Hamlets really, again, a practical, practical steps. So I think some teams have been very good at it. I think some have been very poor, I think some have been very silent about the topic. And I I think I know why that is, I think some I think some folk in our sports still don't know how to tackle it, they don't don't really want to tackle it, they don't see that it's an issue, and they don't see that it's an issue because they actually are ignorant of the topic. And, you know, as John amici says, you know, if you're a black person in London, walking down the street, you don't, you know, you'll go to very, very far before you realise that you're being treated differently. And when I did a corporate event, the Lewis just before the pandemic in Singapore, and we, onstage in front of a group of executives, he was talking about, you know, being bullied at school, and, you know, the racism that was directed at him and his family in his early years, and how that's impacted on his life. So I think this board has done a great deal. I think what is now really important is to see how that manifests itself and really practical impact. So you know, hashtags are great. Having flags flying and having logos and that's all great, you know, you're out there communicating what you aspire to, but what are you actually doing it better practically, I think John taught and the FIA great made some really good steps. I on the on the kind of gender diversity piece, I think W series has shaken the industry up. Not everyone agreed with W series. But I think you cannot disagree with W series view, which is that not enough was being done in a proactive way to help women to become professional racing drivers. And indeed, I've other roles across the sport. So there needed to be some positive discrimination and a push. And I think that's been been really good. But I find it troubling that Michelle Mouton, who has now exited her role in the Women's Commission in the FAA, she she didn't like the W series, and, you know, was wasn't positively supporting it. And of course, the FIA went into their own programme, you know, goes on track with, and working with Ferrari Academy. And this is the kind of thing that that frustrates me is that we need all the, you know, the women are in the minority and motorsport, we need all of them to be united in their charge. It's hard enough to fight the battle without there being splits within within the group. So, but I think ultimately, it's all heading, it's all heading in the right direction. I don't think it's heading in the right direction fast enough. And one final thing that I'll say to you, Farah on this topic. I find it extraordinary that considering the amount of money that the 240 companies who sponsor Formula One teams spend on Formula One, I find it extraordinary how few of them don't support W series. You know, it's an I know W series are finding it frustrating. And I don't really understand that because if I was the Chief Marketing Officer of a global brand, and I have decided that Formula One was worth me, you know, positioning my brand against and putting my brand in the hands of Formula One. I would take a look at the diversity and inclusion formula and say okay, so how how can what can we do to support this move? And I think it should be automatic that W series benefits from commercial support from some of those major sponsors. All of those major sponsors, my view would be if you're not supporting W series, but you're only supporting Formula One, what does that say about your own biases as a as an organisation, so I would like to see more done in a practical way. And then it's much easier to measure the impact.


Farah Nanji  50:16  

Very interesting point you raise there, a lot of food for thought. Talking about food for thought, I do highly encourage our audience to check out Mark's book, because you are a highly acclaimed author. And you wrote the book, the business of winning strategic success from the Formula One track to the boardroom. And of course, you know, looks at the business lessons to be learned. And you've just bought a new edition out this year in 2021, which I'm really excited to read. So we've talked a lot, obviously, about leadership and how these are, you know, some of the key aspects, and I know that you you deliver many keynotes about this topic, and we could obviously talk about for hours, however, just tell me, you know, two other things that you think a team or an individual can take from Formula One, and apply them to business?


Mark Gallagher  51:07  

Wow. Well, gosh, there's a there's a $16 million question. A couple of key takeaways. I think, I think I made the point earlier on that. For all the technology in high finance Formula One is a people business, and you have to have that very clear. Focus as a team to achieve success. But in terms of practical takeaways, I mean, I think, when I talk, for example, David Cole, Todd, and he and I do events together quite often. Something that David is passionate about is that when you've worked in Formula One, and then you step outside and go and work in another industry, it's shocking. It's shocking to see the degree to which people compromise they don't accept, you know, the need to be the best. They're quite happy to compromise and settle for second best. And you know, what, David set up whisper films with Sunil Patel, and Jake Humphrey, and of course, whispers now highly successful. So I'll call it a television production company, but it's a media production company. I know that David was very keen that they ran, ran the company a little bit like a mini Formula One thing and have a debrief each day, you know, what did we do? Well, what can we do badly? I mean, that's something I think all companies could learn from how many companies sit down at the end of each day, or even at the end of each week? And say, we'll have we do have we have we met all our targets? Has it been a great week? Have we got some things wrong? And if we have got some things wrong, what can we learn from it? How can we improve next week. So that kind of relentless nature of Formula One where you're constantly measuring is something that in wider industry seems to be missing, a lot of companies get measured by their quarterly performance, you know, Formula One teams get measured on their, their weekly performance, you know, you win or lose, it's it's incredibly simple. So I think that that sense of focus on how are we doing and what can we do to improve? I think that actually is as relevant for a corner shop as it is for a multinational company, everyone should be trying to do the best job they possibly can. And any company worth its salt should be saying, How can we do better so that that's kind of one thing. And I think the other thing, which I've learned, and it's been a, it's been a lesson, it's a lesson for me. And I mean, I will never be in a leadership role, again, in a in a formula one organisation, but if I have my time, again, there are things that I would do differently, because I've learned the importance of empowering people and of recognising the contribution that every person in your team makes. And again, I think that when I make businesses outside of Formula One, one of the things that often strikes me is that they will maybe have an employee of the month or they might have an annual award ceremony where they say, Well done to, you know, their top salespeople or whatever. And I make the point that in a Formula One team, you know, we're constantly reviewing how we did and if we, if we win, or if we have a good if we have a good day at the office, you know, if we score championship points or get a podium, we have a big celebration, and we share the love. You know, everyone in the factory is made to feel part of the success of the company. It's not about Louis winning the race. It's about broccoli and bricks worth winning the grand prix winning the world championship. It's not about Max it's about Red Bull Racing in Milton Keynes, which is why Lewis and Max will say as soon as they win a race thanks to the guys and girls back in the factory thanks to the team. for their support, and I think too many companies somehow, again, they talk the talk but don't quote, walk the walk when it comes to recognising the contribution each and every employee makes to their success. And actually, all too often, the chief executives are happy to take the credit when things are going well. And that's a little bit like a Formula One driver, he says, Well, I won the race. No formula, one driver wins the race on their own, they win the race because of 1000 people, including their strategy team, which is, you know, online real time during the race devising the best strategy. So I think, again, this an important learning from the world of Formula One is again about this recognition and this cohesion across the team and the recognised recognition that, quite literally, whether you drive the car, design, the car, drive the van at the factory work in marketing, or finance, you're each playing a key role in the team success. I think that's where a Christian Horner and a total Wolf, again, are very similar. They understand that the sum of the parts is so important to achieve success.


Farah Nanji  56:12  

Yeah, absolutely. And you're only as good as your weakest link in the end right. Now, we could talk about this also for a while, but, you know, obviously, it's the the f1 season is finally kicking off this weekend. And I can't let you go without picking your brains on, you know, sort of your thoughts on, you know, what happened last year? Were you happy with the outcome in the way that it happened? And what are your sort of predictions for this upcoming season?


Mark Gallagher  56:45  

I can imagine that some fans, particularly Max, were, were very happy with the outcome and to the exclusion of all else in 2021. But I would describe myself as a max fan, and I'm also a Louis fan. I'm a Formula One fan, I love watching Mercedes and Redbull doing the business that's just brilliant to see what they do. I'm, I would feel I'm a genuine fan of the sport. And therefore, from my point of view, it was highly dissatisfying because it led to rancour and disillusionment and argument and toxicity in the media and social media, mainstream media. And I, I was disheartened by that experience. And, you know, I remember posting on Twitter about a very well intentioned tweet about the fact that Louis was being knighted Windsor Castle, and I said something to the effect that, you know, hopefully, being knighted will, you know, give Lewis cause to reflect on the huge achievements that he has made in his life from his work, you know, a few days after the disappointment of Saudi Arabia, and that was taken as that was taken as me, saying that being knighted somehow made up for losing the World Championship, which, of course, is not what the tweet said, and certainly wasn't what it intended. But there was a, I had this backlash and people saying to me, Well, you're just this white guy who didn't want Lewis Hamilton to win a world championship. So again, the toxicity that came out of Saudi Arabia. Grand Prix results, was disheartening. I profoundly disagree with social media and mainstream media campaigning against Michael Massey, and people who really ought to know better, and indeed, people who often champion mental health and, you know, this support and welfare for people in their lives, those very same people campaigning against Michael Massey. And all I can say is, I hope they never get to experience a 10th, or a 100th, of what Michael Massey's had to put up with because of a decision that he made, which rightly or wrongly led to what happened in, in Saudi Arabia. And I just felt like the whole thing was handled very badly from not just the initial decision making, but the way it was explained the aftermath of the race. I think there was an opportunity in the aftermath of the race to possibly reflect on whether that had been the right decision to make for the final lap. I think the teams handled it quite badly. In some ways, there was some prevarication from teams around the messaging that they were putting out but ultimately, they kind of the sport kind of began to brush it under the carpet and move on and that lets left to a slightly sour taste. So I think, you know, 2021 was a fantastic world championship and we look back on it with a lot of pleasure for individual races, but no one will look back. I think in the fullness of time, I don't think anyone will look back on the outcome of the Sonia Grand Prix with any degree of pleasure, and I think even within Red Bull and amongst Max Verstappen fans there, there will always be a sense that something something slightly strange happened that day and, and therefore that that somehow disturbs the purity of of Max's World Championship. And that's a shame because he deserved and deserves to be a world champion in Formula One, he is a fantastic racing driver and had a superb season. But I think the messiness caused by what happened in that race will take a long time to to, to dissipate. And in terms of the the atmosphere that it created, and the fact remains far that it will never be forgotten. And people will be talking about the controversial end of the 2021 championship in 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years time, it'll be like talking about Senna and Prost, and colliding, and Suzuka. And it'll be all the all the other things that have happened in Formula One from a controversial perspective over the years. And I think that's a shame because when I think about and so now I want to think about the great moments when I think about Michael Schumacher, I want to think about the great moments. When I think about Max Verstappen or Lewis Hamilton, I want to think about the great moments, I don't want to think about controversies because yes, it's part and parcel of the sport, but But it's self inflicted in the way that happened in that final race.


It's It's just a shame, so definitely tinged, you know, our enjoyment of what had been a meteoric season. In terms of, you know, looking forward to this year on a more positive note. I mean, we did have such a terrific year, didn't we in 2021. So this year 22, new regulations, new cars, a slightly more level playing field in theory, I personally have a belief in the fact that the great innovators in this sport people like Adrian YUI, James Allison and his team at Mercedes, they will not be producing in a mirror image cars of the kind that the regulations were suggesting. Last year, they will be looking for the loopholes and the opportunities to exploit those regulations for competitive advantage. So I fully expect us to see some surprises this year, with you know, teams producing designs and developments which the regulator's will not have seen coming. I think that the big established teams Ferrari red bull Mercedes will once again be the teams to beat I think Ferrari, hopefully Ferraris resurgence will continue. I think McLaren should benefit from the new rules and Formula One, I think Alpecin if they capitalise on the success of last year should also be a bigger threat this year, and I think Williams will continue to make progress this year. But we're not going to turn up in you know, a week's time and see Hass win the opening race or Alfa Romeo dominate the world championship. It's it's you know, we're not going to see the world turned upside down. What we are going to see is we're going to see a greater opportunity for more teams to, to, perhaps producers surprised. But I suspect we'll still be seeing Christian Horner Matea binotto Total wolf giving the lion's share of Team principle interviews, once again this season.


Farah Nanji  1:03:40  

How do you think the dynamic between George and Louis will play out?


Mark Gallagher  1:03:46  

Oh, it's going to be fascinating. So I have to admit, I have to share my hand here. I'm a big fan of the Valtteri. But I think he I think again because he's a great driver and he won 10 grand prese and he had the unenviable job of being teammate to the greatest driver of the modern era and Formula One. And you know, it gets slagged off every time he has a bad race and I'd love to see some of the his critics have been given half a chance to do what what he did. And I'm delighted to see him at Alfa Romeo and leading the team. And this is this is my segue into saying that I couldn't have thought of a better person to replace him then George Russell. I think George is a very mean I don't know George say he comes across a very fine person. Highly thought off at Williams, yours computer was at great lengths to explain to me what a great person and driver they felt that George was and therefore a loss to Williams. We know how quick he is because not only have we seen his performances Williams but of course we saw him deputise for Louis and that memorable outing At the end of 2020. So, you know, we know Georgia is going to be right there. The big question, and the one that I know will be occupying the minds of Georgia Lewis and James, Allison and total Wolf and all of our colleagues at Mercedes is can they manage to such highly competitive drivers, this time in a better way than they achieved with Nico Rosberg? And Lewis because we know from all of their interviews, and indeed I did, I was on a podcast with James Allison at the end of 2020. And James James admitted, you know, he said it was toxic in the atmosphere at time very destructive. Yeah, atmosphere at times with Louis and Nico, the, the team went down the wrong path in terms of of how that was managed, which is one of the reasons why the Valtteri Lewis relationship was so great because there was effectively a number one and number two in the team, even though they didn't have those titles. The reality is everyone could see that that was that there was a pecking order and on a number of occasions, Valtteri was asked to support Louis and so we did which was the right thing to do. So the big question is whether that balance can somehow be achieved can George accept the fact that perhaps for this year and maybe even next year that he has to not play second fiddle but be prepared to support learners really important that they don't get into a fight with each other which then hands opportunities to, to their rivals? Really important, they don't start colliding, which of course, we saw with Louis and, and Nico, infamously as well. So there's, you know, there's lots of things that we don't want to see. But what we do want to see is Jordan Lewis Be the best version of themselves pushing each other like how, hopefully, separated by a few hundreds of a second, having some really close racing between themselves and most importantly, beating the competition. So it's going to be great. And of course, for British fans just to be just to be a little bit jingoistic for a moment, you know, for British fans. I mean, what What a luxury, you know, they've got the greatest team in Formula One and modern times were two British drivers, George and Lewis. And, you know, two very fine guys as well with great reputations as people as well as drivers. So it feels like it ought to be a golden era. And let's hope it is, because I would love to see Formula One come out of the pandemic, with a really bright future with drivers like Lewis and George, providing great entertainment and excitement.


Farah Nanji  1:07:42  

Absolutely. Yeah, definitely gonna have the popcorn out for this one. We've just got two final short sections left. I know, we're almost out of time. So we'll make it. We'll make it quick. We've got a couple of questions that come in from our audience. The first one is from Liam, this is a great question, knowing that you're a public speaker, and he's asking how can you what are your tips for gripping an audience and really inspiring them as a speaker?


Mark Gallagher  1:08:12  

My tips for gripping an audience. Humour is incredibly important. I think humour is a great way a great leveller. Because if you can get people to, to laugh, you've won them over. And that's a great way of engaging and I've got a number of ways that I try and try and do that it's much more difficult with virtual events. And, of course, live events. Because with live events, you can walk out on stage, you can connect with an audience. And it's a very different approach than virtual where you aren't getting any feedback. It's also very difficult to deliver humour on a virtual platform, because there's nothing worse than someone laughing at their own jokes. So you can't laugh at yourself. And obviously, you can't hear the audience laughing so hard, but humour generally for me, I think is one important point. The other thing is, know your stuff, and dive in with good facts and figures and insights and don't beat around the bush. I start my presentations by giving usually a little bit of context around Formula One. And one of the things I like to do at the beginning is to is to burst some perceptions about Formula One. And most audiences that I speak to are not Formula One fans, they are business executives, and, you know, maybe 10% of them, or 50% of them might be following the sport in some way. But the vast majority, just know Formula One is some kind of car racing. You know, they heard of a guy called Schumacher, they've heard the guy called Hamilton and that's probably about it. So when you come on stage, and you say, well, Formula One team is a technology company. Immediately people are thinking, really, are they a technology company? And then of course when you say that, the racing team is only 10% of The employees in the team that actually, you know, 100 people go to the race, but 900 or 1000 might be back in the factory, then people start thinking well, so what do all of those other people do so then you introduce people to the fact that the sport is quite unique, and that you have to design and manufacture this great big piece of complex technology to compete in Formula One. And actually, you're working with Aerospace Technology, Automotive Technology, and information technology, because it's a great big, connected device. So part of my approach is to educate, surprise, inform, throw some, throw some cool things at them to make them reflect on how interesting Formula One is. And I think the best feedback that I get is not the feedback that says, Oh, we loved your speech. And we really enjoyed that the best feedback is when you get a message from someone on LinkedIn saying, I really hated Formula One. And now I think it's amazing, because I didn't realise all that stuff. You know, I thought it was just a bunch of cars going around on the circle. And I'd never thought about the fact that, you know, drivers used to get killed doing this, and that safety has improved so much. And I never thought about the fact that it's a data driven sport, or I didn't know that Lewis Hamilton's race strategy has been decided by a team of people back at headquarters and broccoli here looking at all of the real time, data and information. So that's my approach. It's, it's all about using the opportunity to, to give insight, and if you can throw in a little bit of humour, people will enjoy it.


Farah Nanji  1:11:40  

Yeah, absolutely. Very, very well answered. The next question is from Hannah in Copenhagen, she says, having led so many world class teams, is there a question one particular question you always ask a job applicant?


Mark Gallagher  1:11:56  

I think the most important thing is to ask a job applicant, qhat it is that makes them leap out of bed and come to work in the morning? What's the one thing that fires them up? And what makes them want to, to work to work in the team and to contribute? Why do you want to be a contributor to our success? What is it that you? What is it that fires you up? I think that's far more important than academic qualifications or experience. I think that you know, there are there are 19 year olds who can contribute as much to a Formula One team as a 47 year old with a PhD in aeronautical engineering. It's what do you bring as a person? What do you bring? That's, that's the thing that that comes out time and again, obviously, the academic qualifications are there an indication and obviously, that gives you certain expertise. But again, when I you know, rather than just coming from me, I can, I can tell you that when Mercedes Benz or red ball are employing someone, they want to understand what makes that person tick. And how will they fit into the team as a as a human being? How will they contribute? Because if the human aspect is wrong, if the motivations are wrong, if the ambition is not aligned with the team, it's going to be hopeless and and I think that that's again it comes back to the people factor.


Farah Nanji  1:13:37  

Yeah, definitely agree always comes down to your why. So final section, quick fire round, not more than 30 to 60 seconds on each. Number one, if you're a car what would it be? 


Mark Gallagher  1:13:51  

Well, an Alpine 


Farah Nanji  1:13:54  

Okay. What was the last song that you played? Yeah, in your drive, or just the last song you played? I guess.


Mark Gallagher  1:14:04  

Oh, gosh. In terms of in terms of songs, I, I have to admit that I'm as likely to be playing Dua Lipa as I am to be playing Sting. And you know, all points in between and I love music. I was a musician as a child. I played in an orchestra for 14 years. So I love music and I'm again I'm as likely to put on some classical as some as contemporary music.


Farah Nanji  1:14:34  

Interesting, interesting. How do you like to start your day?


Mark Gallagher  1:14:39  

I love just, I mean, I'm a news hound. You know, my news feed. I love to start my day on social media get get a flavour of what's happening in the world. Partly also because I think on social media, I'm quite likely to get a good belly laugh early on in the day from something I see on social media and for all that I've talked in the podcast about the toxicity that we see in social media, I do use it.


Farah Nanji  1:15:05  

interesting. We always ask our guests this question, there's a final question on mission makers, and that is, what are you most grateful for this month?


Mark Gallagher  1:15:18  

What am I most grateful for this month? I think, you know, unquestionably it's, it's my family. And, you know, that's a slightly boring answer. But again, I think with the passage of time, you get to reflect on personal and professional achievements and all the rest of it. But you know, I'm, as we're running up to the start of the Formula One season, I'm in Australia, I'm going to be staying here through to the Melbourne Grand Prix, which hopefully will take place this year. And my son and daughter work here in Australia, my son works in the space industry, my daughter works in animation and Sydney. And, you know, we're all together. And that's the thing that I'm most grateful for this month, and probably this year, and probably in my life.


Farah Nanji  1:16:06  

No, it's a beautiful way to end and I couldn't agree more. And especially when you dedicate so much of your life to work and travel and not getting all of those beautiful moments to be with your family. It's it's everything. And it's, it's the fuel that keeps you going, really. So thank you so much, Mark, for coming on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you. And hopefully we'll catch up with you see,


Mark Gallagher  1:16:31  

yeah, it's been a privilege. Thank you so much, thanks to all listeners who have been with us over the last hour or so. And thanks for making me one of your mission makers, I don't know if victims is the right word or candidate. But anyway, it's been lovely. Thank you so much indeed.


Farah Nanji  1:16:46  

Take care. 


Mark Gallagher  1:16:47  

Thank you. 


Farah Nanji  1:16:48  

If you want to grab a copy of today's show notes, then head over to mission forward slash mark Gallagher, where you'll also find notes from all of our previous episodes. We've got one final guest left for season three, and it's safe to say he's an absolute legend in dance music known to many around the world for his dreamy forward thinking sounds. It's the one and only Lee Burridge. So be sure to share the show with your friends and subscribe to us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube and wherever else you listen to your podcasts. You can reach out to me at Mission makers or a DJ or anyone NJ on Instagram. And if you're interested in supporting the show and getting some cool rewards like Virtual DJ lessons and exclusive merchandise, don't forget to visit forward slash mission makers. Thank you for listening and until next time, keep it laser focused.

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