Farah Nanji 0:02
Camille, thank you so much for joining us today on Mission Makers, it's a pleasure to be speaking with you, at this Amsterdam Dance Event. Special. I know you've been extremely busy during ADE, but before we go into ADE, tell our audience a little bit about the journey of actually starting Bye Bye Plastic Life, with Vivie-Ann from Blond:ish and what you guys hope to achieve as an organization.
Camille Guitteau 0:27
Sure, and yeah, thank you so much for having me here. Indeed, we're just recovering from our ADE where we had several events back to back. The journey with Bye Bye Plastic started about four years ago, together with blondish, and myself, we basically drew the same conclusions and the same vision for the future of the industry. And we formulated the same goals and intentions, but from a different side of the dance floor. So from the decks, and being a DJ touring the world for 10 years, she really realized the huge impact that this industry was having on the planet, the negative impact, the humongous footprint, and that didn't have to be, and that this was clashing very heavily with a certain part of the scene where it's about partying in these beautiful natural open spaces, connecting with one another connecting with nature, etc. And at the same time, that couldn't really resonate with using single-use cups, and plastic bottles, and trashing the floor all over. And on my side, it's kind of the same, I've always been working within music. That's the resonance of my life. But I couldn't bear anymore to actually get my flow completely crushed by those plastic cups and plastic bottles that were trashing the floor, it was completely undermining the experience that I was coming for. So I took a break from my previous job, and really was looking at what would be the next chapter. And very soon I realized that the one priority for me was the preservation of the environment, making sure that we had a dance floor to dance on, us and the next generation. And that's what Bye Bye Plastic is about; helping to eliminate single-use plastics in the industry and to restore balance on earth, for us to continue enjoying a dance, wherever we are from and in whatever number of years.
Farah Nanji 3:24
Amazing, thank you so much for sharing the vision behind Bye Bye Plastic. I've been following you guys from the beginning. And it's really amazing to see the impact that you guys have had, and are continuing to have. So what have been some of your goals going into this year? Because I know, we have ADE Green, for example. And I'm sure you are very integrated into that and you launched something very interesting as well. So maybe you could tell our audience a little bit more about your goals and what you launched this year.
Camille Guitteau 3:55
I was invited to speak again, on a panel that's called no excuse for single use. However, there's one thing that's extremely important for Bye Bye Plastic, and that's inherent within the DNA of our activities, is that we didn't want to only be advocacy-oriented, bringing awareness and conversation starters on the topic. We also wanted to be bringing out solutions. And that's why we're helping out events and festivals with their transition out of single-use plastic. That is the goal, advancing this overall target, basically. And so there are these two verticals in our activities, awareness, and impact.There are lots of occasions to have fun and help the mission of the message to basically grow bigger and to grow stronger in various creative ways. And that's why for this ADE, that was the occasion for us to throw a party that was the launch party of our very first plastic-free party music album, which is a compilation of 14 tracks from artists who are members of the community and who wanted to give out a creative message and a call out to the world basically. So those are 14 super diverse and extremely message-heavy and motivating tracks. For our industry and for the planet. It's amazing to see the creativity burst that they've had and, and how much they've contributed through their art. We've got tracks from Blond:ish from Shiba San and more. And one very big step that we've taken is that throughout the party, we've announced that this album, will actually also come out as the world's first bacteria-based vinyl. And it's going to be the very first time that we research and develop this new material to replace fossil fuel PVC vinyl.
Farah Nanji 6:44
And so tell our audience a bit more who may not understand the ecological impacts of pressing normal vinyl.
Camille Guitteau 6:51
Yeah, sure. So regular vinyl is made out of PVC. So that's one type of fossil fuel plastic that is entirely non-recyclable, and the process itself contains a lot of toxic chemicals in order to fix and stabilize. So as a material, it contains a lot of toxic chemicals. As a process, there is a lot of waste that comes out of it. And this waste once again is nonrecyclable. So that also means that fossil fuel, plastic production facilities, and vinyl production facilities are areas that are toxic in the end. And that means that things like communities are being put at risk of inhaling and living around those areas that are highly polluting, that pollute the water, etc. By itself, the production of vinyl as a recorded music material produces 12 times more greenhouse gas emissions than any other music format as well. That's a statement. However, you know, vinyl as an object are are great. And we don't want to say we should ban and alleviate vinyl, overall, our dynamic and our wish for the world is to that to say okay, like let's evolve, let's evolve towards the better solution. And the better solution is in these days a new bio plastic that's made out of bacteria. These are basically bacteria found everywhere in the world, right? Like they're among us amongst the food that we eat our tables bed everywhere. So there's like those billions of different varieties of bacteria. And scientists have been able to care for the type of bacteria that is building, if it's in the right environment, a plastic replicating material is not plastic anymore. But it's you know, it's the same debate as like alternative milk and meat and all of this, we're going to need to redefine our worlds basically. But it's, it's the evolution of it. And the goal is to basically give them the same properties and features in terms of do we want it to be resistance-robust XYZ. And so we have partnered with experts at evolution music who have been researching bioplastic-made vinyl for about four years, and they have now reached that point where they were able they're able to formulate and produce that vinyl, which has the exact same sound quality as regular vinyl. And we've been able to actually show it during our plastic-free party at W Amsterdam last week, so they had a little stand and could help could make people hear what the sound of a bio-plastic vinyl actually sounds like.
Farah Nanji 10:35
Amazing. This is a huge milestone for the evolution of vinyl in our industry. And I would just like to ask as a follow on like, How scalable is that? And how long does it take to get vinyl pressed with these guys?
Camille Guitteau 10:50
Sure. So first evolution, they know what industry they're they've entered into. And they've been, you know, they've been very smart from the ground up, they didn't want to research, a project just for the art of it just for the science of it. The goal wasn't to make sure that this is replicable. So far, there's been a few innovations in terms of the world of more environmentally produced finals. But then in order for those solutions to work, they need to be scalable indeed. And here, this is entirely scalable, simply because those new materials are adaptable to every vinyl pressing facility. It's literally just a change of the feedstock, the stock that you buy, instead of buying a fossil fuel production, you're going to buy its bioplastic alternative. Now, obviously, obviously, the question comes in terms of like costs. So first is going to come at a slightly premium cost, just like any innovation and r&d, because there is the r&d behind it. Because yes, there are the few starter years of you know, putting, putting the brains and the hours of work and the human work into this. But the more we stimulate the demand for it, the faster those prices are going to go down, and the faster the adoption is going to come. That is the same with every single. Yeah, r&d is dynamic and technology, basically, in terms of when this vinyl is going to come out. So right now it's open for pre-orders. And we will press them in the coming two months. So we're looking at shipping them in, in February. So that's two, three months, because this is again, an r&d project. It's the world's first so there are a lot of things to look into and cater to in order for it to be successful.
Farah Nanji 13:02
Super, super interesting. Well, yeah, I can't wait to buy this vinyl. And yeah, I'm very curious how it, how you play it, and how it sounds out on the speakers as well. I'm sure everyone else's. So we'll definitely link back to the place where our audience can also follow up and purchase the vinyl and support a good cause. So some of the panels that you spoke on, what were some of the key takeaways that you could share with us that you wanted your audience to kind of be empowered by through those panel sessions?
Camille Guitteau 13:35
Sure. I think one of the key call-outs that I've heard that I totally agree with, of course, is if we turn towards event organizers, and music brands, the fact that there's really there's no more excuse and there's no more time for laying back on single-use fossil fuel, plastics. It's really not even a question of courage anymore. It's about doing the job. However, there's one opportunity, and I would really love more and more people to seize it, which is that there are more opportunities for creativity. We can create new structures, new ways of interacting with those better products with those reusable products, and new ways of communicating around them, this is just what we do, we create culture, and we can create a more sustainable culture that actually works. And that's what people are demanding now. So let's get to work. And let's make it fun, make it new, and make it you know, resounding we have the resources for that. So this is typically what we push as a message as Bye Bye Plastic, and what we are working with organizations on. First, we thought it was going to be just advising on a different alternative, basically, what's available for you, what's the most relevant for you for your locality, etc. But no, it's a systems change. So that also means how do you implement this for your teams? For your attendees? How do you communicate about it? And how do you make it successful, environmentally friendly, and experience-wise, on the overall structure?
Farah Nanji 16:24
And so we're talking about a systemic change, which is absolutely critical. And I love what you just said there about our DNA being creative. And so, therefore, let's have fun with being creative around solving this issue and making that something that other industries can learn from and take from. What kind of markets or stakeholders has been most resistant to change when it comes to some of your initiatives? And how have you tackled that mindset shift?
Camille Guitteau 16:53
I would give two pointers, one from me, and one from Eli from DJs, for climate action who is an artist himself. So he's seen and walked that path so many times over so many years. The booker's and promoters' side of this industry definitely has a big margin of action, where what I hear about everybody's saying is to start talking to each other and communicating. And because this is the first point to improving the routes and the well-being of your artists, etc. Because everybody wants to improve XYZ, but there's this logic of secrecy that is actually not relevant anymore, at all, and that everybody is trying to preserve, while again, there are so many more creative routes that we could go that are more open, I want to give one big one example because she's apparently the only one who did that. A French DJ, who created Mama loves you booking agency. They committed to giving 10 commitments for the planet and for doing their job in a sustainable manner. And they have an open calendar, where all the artist's shows are actually displayed. So everything is public for Bookers. So they can arrange and actually look at dates that are close to their regions, and cities and optimize bookings this way. And this is exactly where we should go. The second pointer would definitely be that music brands and festivals start making bolder moves to rethink activities. Because, again, that's what your audience's demanding. That's what your governments are now about to demand. And, you know, there is no one else who's in a better position than you to actually rethink. You think that your wallet is going to take a big hit in that but actually if you do it with experts, and if you do it smartly and openly you're going to find new ways of creating revenue that you would never have expected and thought of before.
Farah Nanji 19:48
And so from an artist's perspective, I know you focus a lot on reducing single-use plastics, but from an artist's perspective, what are the three areas, obviously you alluded to one just there with touring. What are the three biggest areas that have a negative impact when it comes to more sustainability so that we can understand and hopefully we can take the right measures in place to change that?
Camille Guitteau 20:15
The second obvious is travel indeed, traveling, flying, etc. Most of them don't want to travel that much it's draining and not a nice lifestyle at all. It's a tyranny for most of them. But it's the only way of earning a decent income. So a lot of them are probably not saying it loud enough, but there's going to be a systemic industry change where the revenue models need to switch out of live touring and switch into remunerating production better. So we're talking streaming, we're talking live concerts, digital live concerts, etc, creating new revenue models. And I think there's been a few great examples from COVID, actually, and we should definitely go back to it. I remember that Bicep completely killed it. Even through the distance of our screens, throughout COVID. So it is feasible. And we should take those examples. And in terms of reducing the transport, the air transport, reducing the flights, and wherever, that's not feasible, finding solutions for that. And I really do want to touch upon carbon removal and not carbon offsetting as well as a solution that we've put out together with digital and sky energy, which is called the climate gig. And it's basically a solution for artists, but also for attendees because attendees also travel to festivals. A solution is for them to book sustainable aviation fuel which is a new type of fuel that consumes 80%, less energy compared to fossil fuel. And so it saves a lot of energy. And this website allows you to book and invest in it so that this fuel can become more available in bigger places. Obviously, it's a new technology. So it's going to be available around the production site. Otherwise, it would be stupid to transport fuel to any other flights that we want to book throughout the world. So it goes directly from the production site to one set of planes. However, the more we demand it, the more airlines will start working on more and more recurring flights. So again, that's the same logic of demand stimulating the offer. And so the climate gig is available both for artists, but also for event attendees to invest in to do the right thing, to take the right step, and feel better about their travel if they really go for it and do it. Because one last note on this, it might not be obvious from an outsider's perspective, but for big international festivals, the biggest carbon footprint of an international festival always comes from attendees' travels. Because if you imagine you have a lineup with you know, 50 international artists, imagine the number of international visitors that are behind. So that's exponential. And so this is also something that you can do about yourself if you're choosing to go to a festival.
Farah Nanji 24:08
Definitely. And the fans with the issues that you mentioned before, the fans are equally responsible for taking the solutions into their hands. And that comes down to putting more pressure on streaming platforms to completely, turn this model into a completely fair and equitable model. And I think that the first thing that everyone we've spoken to about this is the major thing that needs to shift because it's not fair that everyone else has to live this really grueling life to make money when there's so much that the platform's themselves are making and not fairly distributing and of course, the creator economy in the metaverse will hopefully unlock more value per fan. Taking away hopefully that shift from streaming but also as you say, looking into initiatives, this where you can put more of a pressure on alternative fuels, and so on and so forth. And so talking over the metaverse, of course, your founder Vivi, is extremely integrated into Web3, the Metaverse, crypto, and so on. Do you guys have any exciting plans that you can share with us around this transition for Bye Bye Plastic into the metaverse? And are there any myths you want to debunk about crypto and climate?
Camille Guitteau 25:29
Sure. Well, more than a teaser. We can actually talk about some projects we launched, not so long ago, before ADE, we actually launched our own token. And it's an eco token. So this token, that's actually of which the value is curated on the environment. So we're basically putting the statement that the better the environment is going to go, the better the economy and society are going to go. We're incentivizing people to take action for the planet and rewarding them with eco tokens with networks that talk with each other. I can't really go into too much detail myself knowing so much of the technicals, but this new mechanism is between 98 and 99 times less energy-consuming than the proof of work mechanism. So from the beginning, it's emitting exponentially less. So this whole space basically is really more than just looking at some batch of NF Ts and, and Web3, but really looking at how this new era of economy and of the intelligence of the internet can actually solve real-world problems.
Farah Nanji 28:52
Very interesting. And so something we love to ask our guests on the show is, what are some of the misconceptions behind the work that you do?
Camille Guitteau 29:01
Hmm, good one. Okay, let me think for a bit. We choose to focus on single-use plastics because you have to start somewhere, but obviously, the focus is single-use and fossil-fuel plastic. So very often when you get to know someone and they question for example, why you are still using a plastic mouse. Well, yes, I cannot change every single industry just by clapping my hands. I wish that would be the case. But it is not. So yeah it's not because you dedicate your entire life and you're really putting all your efforts into it that you are able to avoid plastic and single-use plastics at all times. It is not fully avoidable today, unfortunately. But it doesn't diminish the work and the effort that's being put out there and the work we do.
Farah Nanji 30:43
Yeah, absolutely, you cannot completely eliminate this, it is not in your control. But what is in your control is the amount of change that you make and the message you share with the people around you. And obviously the number of festivals and the DJ riders and all the amazing initiatives that you guys have done to 100x this output. And so the final question that we've asked all of our ADE guests is, what, in your opinion, is the most critical change that needs to happen in the music industry, one year from now, five years from now, and 10 years from now? So really looking at it from a macro perspective, as we're also in this exciting technology paradigm as well.
Camille Guitteau 31:37
Okay, most critical change. I mean without any question, integrating sustainability at every single level of professional and in every single project design, that there needs to be understood, really quickly by everyone that sustainability, it’s not just a department that's similar to equality, or all these other very basic human notions that we, unfortunately, sometimes have to fight for. This is survival. If we want to continue thriving, we need to integrate this at every single step of our professional endeavors and designs. And that takes more than having a department dedicated to it. And this means it's a department that's going to work with everybody, with finance, with operations with people, with communications and marketing, because that needs to be weaved into everything. So I think that's the critical turning point that needs to happen in the coming year. Let's give it one year.
Farah Nanji 33:15
Definitely. And then 5 years from now, and 10 years from now, what do you think would be the next most important things that we need to focus on as an industry to change?
Camille Guitteau 33:28
Yeah, changing the culture from sustainability being this dreadful thing that everybody has to take on as a burden, and into this playful, creative, and open field, that field of possibility that can be explored.
Farah Nanji 33:51
Great. Okay. Well, I think we learned a lot from today's conversation. And if you weren't at ADE then hopefully you've been able to listen back to some of this and see some of the discussions that have taken place because I think also something that's been highlighted a lot in the post at ADE buzz is just how willing people are to dispel a lot of myths and collaborate to help this fragile industry move forward. And I think ADE is a great example of an initiative that's really working with different stakeholders to spearhead that change. So thanks a lot, Camille for your time, and wishing you all the best with the future plans for Bye Bye Plastic.
Camille Guitteau 34:41
Thanks, Farah for having me and for having Bye Bye Plastic and yeah, looking forward to seeing you again.